feedback carbon spokes 16, 18, 20, 21, 24??

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extrusionedwin
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2021 3:25 am

by extrusionedwin

hellos
I saw cadex max 40 release the front rear with 16 spokes and rear with 24 spokes
and I wonder why dont use in the front 18 and rear 21 or
the new black inc uses 20/20 spokes it should be great? or just for save weigth and sacrifice spokes ?

hyper uses 21/21 and the old version 18/18
superteam uses 21/21
vortex uses 21/21

do you know for a stable stiffness with very good comfort
what's the ideal spokes numbers? 18/18 21/21 or 21/24 , 18/21 or 24/24??

tks

by Weenie


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tiz92
Posts: 208
Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 3:36 pm

by tiz92

I would say that we cant really give you an objective review abou this. It depends on many things such as purpose of the wheelset, tire width, rider weight, stiffness of the spokes, spoke tension, stiffness of the rim etc... we dont have any actual data on these things and even then it is hard to say as often also impressions and riders expections/needs are different.

hannawald
Posts: 1775
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:28 pm
Location: Czech Republic

by hannawald

I know that FFWD with their carbon spoked Raw wheelset postponed their release because they found out it transfers too much load onto the hub bearings. They revisited the hubs and didn´t want that rims so stiff so it works as a whole wheelset. Their representative basically critised some chinese manufacturers that they take the same rims and make them with carbon spokes or steel spokes, what you click in the eshop, and don´t care about the whole package.

Also there is no one carbon spoke design. They vary from 3.6mm width to 5.2mm width. Some say the wider spokes are stiffer and some say it is just cosmetic for better aero, not structural. There is also carbon spoke with Campagnolo style lacing...so far so many options and you just have to trust the manufacturer. I tried to chat with Farsports but they basically told me nothing about the quality of their wheels - what is the difference between their RD270 hub series and EVO series. They use different spoke and the price is very different. Are any of them stiffer/more comfortable, more aero... they didn´t tell me, just that the more expensive are better.

Joe from Pandapodium says CRW with few spokes design are the best, he calls it next generation carbon spoke wheels, being stiff and comfortable at the same time. Cadex wheels are described as not very comfortable in reviews.

toxin
Posts: 937
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2023 5:56 pm

by toxin

I agree fewer spokes on the front is probably the way, you don't need that much stiffness

Nickldn
Posts: 2016
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

I have to agree the CRW's are very comfortable wheels, but also don't feel noodly and transfer power well enough for me. I would guess that very stiff wheels as offered by Cadex are good for sprinters, but too much of a compromise for most riders.

toxin
Posts: 937
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2023 5:56 pm

by toxin

Stiffness at the rear is important, at the front, meh, we dont have any rim brakes to rub anymore so middling stiffnes there isn't a problem

Agent041
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2023 11:16 am

by Agent041

Farsport Hypers with 20 front / 20 back. Plenty stiff, but also very comfortable. Lately as I went on disc brake bike, I was getting wider and wider with tyres. from 28 to 30 and then 32. Now on Farsport wheels with carbon spokes, I am again on 28c. They do come +30mm due to wide rim (front and back), and it makes cornering on descent way better.

Hexsense
Posts: 3365
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

what we can say for sure is any odd number spoke count require triplet lacing.
So 21 spokes and 20 spokes are more different than 1 spokes.
21 likely a triplet where one side of fewer spoke is radial lacing, another side is 2x lacing.
29 likely have 2x lacing on both side.

Radial spokes don't really transfer brake and acceleration torque.

Agent041
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2023 11:16 am

by Agent041

Hexsense wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2024 2:22 am
what we can say for sure is any odd number spoke count require triplet lacing.
So 21 spokes and 20 spokes are more different than 1 spokes.
21 likely a triplet where one side of fewer spoke is radial lacing, another side is 2x lacing.
29 likely have 2x lacing on both side.

Radial spokes don't really transfer brake and acceleration torque.
And lets not forget that if you have 20 spokes, then 10 spokes do the braking (as each side has 10 spokes), and if you have 21 spookes, only 7 spokes do the braking (as to 2/1 ratio and therefore only 7 spokes on the non drive side)

extrusionedwin
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2021 3:25 am

by extrusionedwin

I saw the Newmen from germany are very crazy, use only fron 15h, adn rear 18h , and the max weigth is 130kgs for all this spokes.
As I understand in MTB, when the spokes are very important, needs to use over 28 to 32 or more, I believe it is beause are not in the flat surface to ride,
the all terrain conditions with jumps, faster movements , climb and descents are more dangerous than road bikes, and the stabillity of the wheels are important. When using more spokes, the impact will be absorve more better. Of course in the road bikes, maybe for a sprinter needs to use more power, over 1000Watts I think, the wheels needs to prepare for the faster power ready to blow up. But maybe for climb, all around conditions the massive number of spokes are not revelant or we could say, it shouldnt that important.

Agent041
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2023 11:16 am

by Agent041

extrusionedwin wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2024 7:59 am
I saw the Newmen from germany are very crazy, use only fron 15h, adn rear 18h , and the max weigth is 130kgs for all this spokes.
As I understand in MTB, when the spokes are very important, needs to use over 28 to 32 or more, I believe it is beause are not in the flat surface to ride,
the all terrain conditions with jumps, faster movements , climb and descents are more dangerous than road bikes, and the stabillity of the wheels are important. When using more spokes, the impact will be absorve more better. Of course in the road bikes, maybe for a sprinter needs to use more power, over 1000Watts I think, the wheels needs to prepare for the faster power ready to blow up. But maybe for climb, all around conditions the massive number of spokes are not revelant or we could say, it shouldnt that important.
When going down steep hill or have to brake hard, I think it makes also the differance on load on wheel how many spokes do the braking. So if the front wheel has 15 spokes (probably then 2:1 patern) I think only 5 spokes do the braking. At least in the rear is always more spokes on the drive side. And the disc rotor is on the other side. Ot is it maybe with Newman wheels for the front one reverse? Do you perhaps know?

by Weenie


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