Zipp specific Goodyear VectorR Z30 NSW/SW

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rudye9mr
Posts: 585
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 12:01 pm

by rudye9mr

Would be nice if Goodyear tested other 25mm internal width wheels for compatability..and tyre width when inflated on those hoops

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mikehhhhhhh
Posts: 469
Joined: Tue May 16, 2023 3:08 pm
Location: UK

by mikehhhhhhh

The whole pitch behind their fitment series is that tyres are made specifically for rims.

My guess would be approving them for other rims undermines this concept.

I do think some of these made for wider internal tyres might start a trend of tyres designed around wider internals, though!

by Weenie


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warthog101
Posts: 989
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:05 am

by warthog101

I expect the width is the primary variable they are designed for. Rim circumference should not be a variable. If I found them at a reasonable price I would try them on my hookless LB WR50s. Happy enough with the Schwalbe pro ones I am running now, until then.

mikehhhhhhh
Posts: 469
Joined: Tue May 16, 2023 3:08 pm
Location: UK

by mikehhhhhhh

Junior Varsity wrote:
Thu May 30, 2024 5:23 pm
The Vector R Z30/Z35 are higher volume performance tires, both sharing the same compound as the EF1R and the EF1SSR, but they do have a different construction or materials compared to the EF1R.
How confident are you that these are the same compound?

According to BRR the EF1R has a better wet grip than the STR yet this isn't my experience.

In fact, the last two days in the wet I'd liken the Z30 NSWs to riding on ice next to STRs. Very easily locked up and I've had to more slides at the rear at moderate pace in the last two days than the previous year on STRs and Corsa Pros. All came to crescendo sliding out on a slight corner while pottering in a group of 6 others that made it through without so much as a wobble

Additionally, if you apply a static lateral load on the same piece of wet road, the Z30 has dramatically less grip.

I've never experienced anything like it - it's like riding on oily tarmac.

I'll try significantly lowering the pressures next time in the wet, interestingly the Goodyear tweaked version of the Zipp pressure calculator recommends pressures the same as any other 30mm tyre which would measure 2mm wider on these rims, so maybe the base pressure from silca is too high for these :noidea:
Last edited by mikehhhhhhh on Mon Jun 17, 2024 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 13070
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

My experience is that BRR’s wet grip test rankings do mirror real world performance. The GP5K’s wet grip has always been middling while every tire I’ve used that scores in the mid 70s or higher has inspired confidence while descending on damp roads.

mikehhhhhhh wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2024 5:09 pm

How confident are you that these are the same compound?

Heh.

jlok
Posts: 2518
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2024 9:50 pm
My experience is that BRR’s wet grip test rankings do mirror real world performance. The GP5K’s wet grip has always been middling while every tire I’ve used that scores in the mid 70s or higher has inspired confidence while descending on damp roads.

mikehhhhhhh wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2024 5:09 pm

How confident are you that these are the same compound?

Heh.
Maybe... but not with P Zero Race 4S. While it scores highly in wet grip in the test, it just slips in real world wet surface with its pointy tread cap. The test does have it limitation.
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

jlok
Posts: 2518
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

mikehhhhhhh wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2024 5:09 pm
Junior Varsity wrote:
Thu May 30, 2024 5:23 pm
The Vector R Z30/Z35 are higher volume performance tires, both sharing the same compound as the EF1R and the EF1SSR, but they do have a different construction or materials compared to the EF1R.
How confident are you that these are the same compound?

According to BRR the EF1R has a better wet grip than the STR yet this isn't my experience.

In fact, the last two days in the wet I'd liken the Z30 NSWs to riding on ice next to STRs. Very easily locked up and I've had to more slides at the rear at moderate pace in the last two days than the previous year on STRs and Corsa Pros. All came to crescendo sliding out on a slight corner while pottering in a group of 6 others that made it through without so much as a wobble

Additionally, if you apply a static lateral load on the same piece of wet road, the Z30 has dramatically less grip.

I've never experienced anything like it.

I'll try significantly lowering the pressures next time in the wet, interestingly the Goodyear tweaked version of the Zipp pressure calculator recommends pressures the same as any other 30mm tyre which would measure 2mm wider on these rims, so maybe the base pressure from silca is too high for these :noidea:
My friend had the exact same horrified experience of Eagle F1r 28mm clinchers. It sliped very easily. I was on GP5k TT TR 25mm and rode with him last weekend full day in rain. Never seen him woth that low of confidence in the rain. "Riding on ice" is good analogy. Strangely, the tire was great in the first 2-300km.
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

mikehhhhhhh
Posts: 469
Joined: Tue May 16, 2023 3:08 pm
Location: UK

by mikehhhhhhh

jlok wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2024 1:41 am
mikehhhhhhh wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2024 5:09 pm
Junior Varsity wrote:
Thu May 30, 2024 5:23 pm
The Vector R Z30/Z35 are higher volume performance tires, both sharing the same compound as the EF1R and the EF1SSR, but they do have a different construction or materials compared to the EF1R.
How confident are you that these are the same compound?

According to BRR the EF1R has a better wet grip than the STR yet this isn't my experience.

In fact, the last two days in the wet I'd liken the Z30 NSWs to riding on ice next to STRs. Very easily locked up and I've had to more slides at the rear at moderate pace in the last two days than the previous year on STRs and Corsa Pros. All came to crescendo sliding out on a slight corner while pottering in a group of 6 others that made it through without so much as a wobble

Additionally, if you apply a static lateral load on the same piece of wet road, the Z30 has dramatically less grip.

I've never experienced anything like it.

I'll try significantly lowering the pressures next time in the wet, interestingly the Goodyear tweaked version of the Zipp pressure calculator recommends pressures the same as any other 30mm tyre which would measure 2mm wider on these rims, so maybe the base pressure from silca is too high for these :noidea:
Strangely, the tire was great in the first 2-300km.
Funny you say that. Now that I think about it, this isn't the first wet ride on these tyres.

I had some wet early on, including a soaking and very pacey chain gang. No issues.

I wonder if it's possible the rubber compound changes as it's scrubbed in, or perhaps holds on to some road contaminants worse than others?

Last night I was able to check pressures - I had let a bit of air out after the crash. By chance I'd managed to get them very close to Goodyear tyre calc - 53/53. Still had low grip.

Also checked my park tool inflator against Topeak pressure gauge against my starting pressures (63/61) and they're within 1 psi of each other.

mikehhhhhhh
Posts: 469
Joined: Tue May 16, 2023 3:08 pm
Location: UK

by mikehhhhhhh

Goodyear customer services just got back to me and shared a super interesting graph comparing wet cornering grip between the new sw/nsw tyres and gp5000.

I won't share it, as I presume it'd be in the public domain if they wanted it to be but needless to say it shows the z30 massively outperforming a 30mm gp5000.

They've also offered to RMA the tyres.

I honestly wondered if a random guy ranting about wet grip would get a response at all - so well happy with the customer service so far!

Nickldn
Posts: 2016
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

Manufacturer says their tire is better than competitors'. Shocking.

mikehhhhhhh
Posts: 469
Joined: Tue May 16, 2023 3:08 pm
Location: UK

by mikehhhhhhh

Nickldn wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2024 6:29 pm
Manufacturer says their tire is better than competitors'. Shocking.
I hear you, but this graph claims to be tested by sram, not Goodyear and it's also not public. Do they need fudged test results for internal use only?

CampagYOLO
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu May 06, 2021 3:58 pm

by CampagYOLO

mikehhhhhhh wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2024 7:38 pm
Nickldn wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2024 6:29 pm
Manufacturer says their tire is better than competitors'. Shocking.
I hear you, but this graph claims to be tested by sram, not Goodyear and it's also not public. Do they need fudged test results for internal use only?
Surely if SRAM had data stating that they had the best wheel/tyre combo about they'd make it public?

6fu
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:59 am

by 6fu

mikehhhhhhh wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2024 7:38 pm
Nickldn wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2024 6:29 pm
Manufacturer says their tire is better than competitors'. Shocking.
I hear you, but this graph claims to be tested by sram, not Goodyear and it's also not public. Do they need fudged test results for internal use only?
They sent it to you so it's not for internal use only. Unless you work for sram/gy?

Testing doesn't always translate to real world conditions well. I remember few years ago Pirelli had a tire that was super grippy in the dry but in rain it was like on ice.

If you are concerned with wet grip switch back to gp5000 (which isn't remarkable in rain nor super comfortable but solid tire in all aspects) or maybe try another brand. New tufo seems promising, and vittoria is also good in the rain. Thankfully there is plenty of choice :)

jlok
Posts: 2518
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

6fu wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2024 6:40 am
mikehhhhhhh wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2024 7:38 pm
Nickldn wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2024 6:29 pm
Manufacturer says their tire is better than competitors'. Shocking.
I hear you, but this graph claims to be tested by sram, not Goodyear and it's also not public. Do they need fudged test results for internal use only?
They sent it to you so it's not for internal use only. Unless you work for sram/gy?

Testing doesn't always translate to real world conditions well. I remember few years ago Pirelli had a tire that was super grippy in the dry but in rain it was like on ice.

If you are concerned with wet grip switch back to gp5000 (which isn't remarkable in rain nor super comfortable but solid tire in all aspects) or maybe try another brand. New tufo seems promising, and vittoria is also good in the rain. Thankfully there is plenty of choice :)
The Made in Italy clinchers of P Zero Race / 4S. Both profiles are pointy and have little wet grip. They're fantastic in the dry though.
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

mikehhhhhhh
Posts: 469
Joined: Tue May 16, 2023 3:08 pm
Location: UK

by mikehhhhhhh

Well can't grumble with the customer service from Goodyear.

Received a free new set of Z30 nsws the moment they had the new batch in stock. The fact that they took the complaint seriously rather than just dismissing it as an idiot blaming his misfortunes on equipment rather than lack of talent is really encouraging.

It'll take a lot of building trust to lean on these in the wet again, if they turn out to be just as bad then I thnk it'll be time to give up on the nsws. I really don't want to go back to 33mm WAM tyres, I've been really enjoying the ride at 30mm.

by Weenie


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