New Rovals?

Wheels, Tires, Tubes, Tubeless, Tubs, Spokes, Hookless, Hubs, and more!

Moderator: robbosmans

Forum rules
The spirit of this board is to compile and organize wheels and tires related discussions.

If a new wheel tech is released, (say for example, TPU tubes, a brand new tire, or a new rim standard), feel free to start the discussion in the popular "Road". Your topic will eventually be moved here!
RDY
Posts: 2587
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

€3500 for 1190g and dubious toughtness (light weight carbon spokes for MTB with a super low flange hub). Seems pretty underwhelming and potentially liable to failure. You can get significantly lighter steel spoked wheels, and much lighter dyneema.

BudhaNL
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:05 pm

by BudhaNL

"Conjecture your honor!"

Also: €3000 in Dutch webstore.

by Weenie


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cajer
Posts: 742
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:26 am

by cajer

Super dissapointing that they are likley to be recycling the same rim for 3 wheels now. I guess I should be so suprised with SL6, 7, and 8 all being very similar.

tmrace
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:13 am

by tmrace

So, based on Spec's claims the carbon spokes are 1.26g lighter than the aerolite so savings would be 53g on the Rapides.

The real question is… are they selling this as a ltd edition because production volume is low and they won’t have stock to sell for the regular version until later OR are they just trying to blow through old rim stock and using the carbon spokes to sell the old rims before introducing the actual new wheels later?

mikehhhhhhh
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue May 16, 2023 3:08 pm
Location: UK

by mikehhhhhhh

tmrace wrote:
Wed May 22, 2024 5:48 am
So, based on Spec's claims the carbon spokes are 1.26g lighter than the aerolite so savings would be 53g on the Rapides.

The real question is… are they selling this as a ltd edition because production volume is low and they won’t have stock to sell for the regular version until later OR are they just trying to blow through old rim stock and using the carbon spokes to sell the old rims before introducing the actual new wheels later?
Hopefully the latter and we've got an even lighter, 23mm internal set of rapides coming.

Jaisen
Posts: 688
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:01 am

by Jaisen

tmrace wrote:
Wed May 22, 2024 5:48 am
So, based on Spec's claims the carbon spokes are 1.26g lighter than the aerolite so savings would be 53g on the Rapides.

The real question is… are they selling this as a ltd edition because production volume is low and they won’t have stock to sell for the regular version until later OR are they just trying to blow through old rim stock and using the carbon spokes to sell the old rims before introducing the actual new wheels later?
That's a good theory, trying to move overstock. Given they are also bundling the Team Editions with wheel bags, tires, and bottles they probably have a surplus of those items too due to not selling enough bikes. Also, maybe there just isn't enough innovation yet to warrant a full launch of a new wheel set.

Looking at the Control SL's, the spoke savings are 86g, but the whole wheel set is only 80g lighter, so either the nipples or hubs have added 6 grams back from the spoke savings alone. What's interesting in the Control SL case is that it means they couldn't really shave any weight with the new hub designs. Similarly, they wind tunnel tested their Rapides to death before launching them and many competitors are imitating the profiles, so perhaps there isn't much room for improvement on the rims themselves which test amongst the fastest of all wheels.

We're starting to reach peak bike equipment, like with new iPhones each year there isn't much actual improvement on the hardware side other than slightly better cameras. Unless the UCI makes some drastic changes to the weight limits, either decreasing it or even increasing it, the margins for innovation are getting rather thin.

Ytse
Posts: 342
Joined: Thu May 05, 2022 11:53 am

by Ytse

mikehhhhhhh wrote:
Tue May 21, 2024 5:13 pm

Road wheels will be very disappointing if they're only 50g lighter imo. Better off with gen1 clx
CLX II Team Edition will be 130g lighter than CLX II, so will come around 1400g give or take.
2020 Scott Addict RC / 2023 Specialized Tarmac SL8

Jaisen
Posts: 688
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:01 am

by Jaisen

Ytse wrote:
Wed May 22, 2024 7:33 am
mikehhhhhhh wrote:
Tue May 21, 2024 5:13 pm

Road wheels will be very disappointing if they're only 50g lighter imo. Better off with gen1 clx
CLX II Team Edition will be 130g lighter than CLX II, so will come around 1400g give or take.
Will there be Alpinist and Terra Team Editions?

Ytse
Posts: 342
Joined: Thu May 05, 2022 11:53 am

by Ytse

Jaisen wrote:
Wed May 22, 2024 7:38 am
Will there be Alpinist and Terra Team Editions?
I have not heard about them.
2020 Scott Addict RC / 2023 Specialized Tarmac SL8

RDY
Posts: 2587
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

RDY wrote:
Tue May 21, 2024 10:46 pm
€3500 for 1190g and dubious toughtness (light weight carbon spokes for MTB with a super low flange hub). Seems pretty underwhelming and potentially liable to failure. You can get significantly lighter steel spoked wheels, and much lighter dyneema.
It's not spectulation that low flange hubs with these kind of carbon spokes are a bad idea, and likely particularly on MTB, with such a low spoke count (20).

If you want something similar that's lighter and has 24 spokes instead of 20, Newmen's option is half the price. You'd have to be mad to buy the specialized ones.

BikeTyson
Posts: 704
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:16 pm

by BikeTyson

CustomMetal wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 6:26 pm
I've just ordered the new Scope Artech 4A which seem pretty no compromise to me.. 45mm deep, 33.7mm wide, 25mm internal and hooked, no rider weight limit, lifetime warranty and crash replacement, 1200g, optimised around a 30mm tyre. Enve 4.5 money with the enve hub
Those are sweet looking wheels with all the specs I want. Just can't do that price tag. I'm really interested to hear how they ride.

tmrace
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:13 am

by tmrace

Jaisen wrote:
Wed May 22, 2024 7:30 am
Looking at the Control SL's, the spoke savings are 86g, but the whole wheel set is only 80g lighter, so either the nipples or hubs have added 6 grams back from the spoke savings alone. What's interesting in the Control SL case is that it means they couldn't really shave any weight with the new hub designs. Similarly, they wind tunnel tested their Rapides to death before launching them and many competitors are imitating the profiles, so perhaps there isn't much room for improvement on the rims themselves which test amongst the fastest of all wheels.
Where did you get the 86g savings?
The current control sl are 1240g and the new SL team are 1190g. That's only a 50g savings.

Jaisen
Posts: 688
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:01 am

by Jaisen

tmrace wrote:
Wed May 22, 2024 6:37 pm
Jaisen wrote:
Wed May 22, 2024 7:30 am
Looking at the Control SL's, the spoke savings are 86g, but the whole wheel set is only 80g lighter, so either the nipples or hubs have added 6 grams back from the spoke savings alone. What's interesting in the Control SL case is that it means they couldn't really shave any weight with the new hub designs. Similarly, they wind tunnel tested their Rapides to death before launching them and many competitors are imitating the profiles, so perhaps there isn't much room for improvement on the rims themselves which test amongst the fastest of all wheels.
Where did you get the 86g savings?
The current control sl are 1240g and the new SL team are 1190g. That's only a 50g savings.
The Control SL Team Editions is 1190g but it says in parenthesis that it includes the rim tape and valves that are 15g per wheel. The Control SL non team edition advertises the weight as 1240 but it excludes rim tape and valves. 1240+30=1270. 1270-1190=80g.

Now the Control SL team edition says they use new carbon spokes that reduce the weight by 29% compared to the previous spokes. The Control SL non team edition uses DT Swiss Aerolite straightpull spokes. I happen to have those on my wheels and they came with spares. I weighed them at 4.4g.

Control SL has 24 spokes front and rear for a total of 48 spokes. 48*4.4=211.2g
Control SL Team has 20 spokes front and rear for a total of 40 spokes. 40*4.4*0.71=124.96g

Weight savings going carbon spokes for Team Edition is therefore 211.2-124.96=86.24g

alanyu
Posts: 1717
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:10 pm

by alanyu

STEEL SPOKES on CLX team
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by Weenie


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tmrace
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:13 am

by tmrace

Well after re-reading some old material about the last gen control SL and control SL team wheels it looks like the team edition was launched for the Olympics with a few small upgrades like higher engagement and ceramic bearings and then the regular version of the control SL were available a little while later with the same specs minus some of the little nice to haves but with the same weight/hub/spoke specs.

So they might not be using the team edition launch as a way to clear stock and instead it really is just a preview of the next gen wheels with a few small extras before the cheaper production version comes out a little bit later.

With that said, anyone have any final information or pictures they can share before the launch?

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