Hookless and updated ISO Standards - Thomas De Gendt Crash

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The spirit of this board is to compile and organize wheels and tires related discussions.

If a new wheel tech is released, (say for example, TPU tubes, a brand new tire, or a new rim standard), feel free to start the discussion in the popular "Road". Your topic will eventually be moved here!
mikehhhhhhh
Posts: 468
Joined: Tue May 16, 2023 3:08 pm
Location: UK

by mikehhhhhhh

TheBelgian wrote:
Tue May 14, 2024 7:29 pm
I started using Silca. Means I only have to fill directly in the tire once, at first install, and then 3 top ups through the valve before removing the tire after 12 months to clean up and restart.

I can also confirm that Silca is reasonably easy to clean off the frame and other surfaces. How do I know? I blew a tire from a rim a couple of days ago and splattered my garage in sealant, including door and ceiling.

I used to use Oko sealant but that was a nightmare to clean up. Had it on my bike frame once. The horror ...
Just a warning, It's a pain to remove from hard surfaces once it's dried and impossible to remove from clothes.

Clothes was a deal breaker for me. I took it out after that

TheBelgian
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:09 am

by TheBelgian

mikehhhhhhh wrote:
Tue May 14, 2024 7:37 pm
Just a warning, It's a pain to remove from hard surfaces once it's dried and impossible to remove from clothes.
Actually it's not :) I can just rub it off. Comes of pretty easily.
Clothes is something else. I think all sealant destroys clothes since it gets stuck inside the material.

Have you tried their sealant remover?

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mikehhhhhhh
Posts: 468
Joined: Tue May 16, 2023 3:08 pm
Location: UK

by mikehhhhhhh

IME Stans forms rubber-like drops on the surface that just seem to pick off, while The silca soaked in and stained.

I haven't tried Silca's sealant remover, I did try the muc off one though.

AJS914
Posts: 5499
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

MikeD wrote:
Tue May 14, 2024 5:18 pm
Sealant has a shelf life in the bottle, opened. Look it up. I've had sealant (OS Endurance) not seal even though it was still liquid.
Orange Seal says to replace sealant every year, opened or not.

I'm sure that helps their bottom line but I'm not sure I buy it. I've had a bottle going on two years and the consistency seems normal.

Stan's, on the other hand, says that their sealant does not expire and will last many years in the bottle stored in a cool, dry place. I also have some Stans that is a couple years old that I use on my gravel bike. It looks normal. I just used it a month ago.

Endurance not sealing - I'm not sure why people buy it. It's their sealing less well product. I would not trade sealing abilities for the convenience of less frequent maintenance. A tire not sealing could have resulted from different factors - hole too big, you didn't shake the bottle up, etc.

spdntrxi
Posts: 6024
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

I also had a bottle well beyond a year with no noticable change in performance. I used both reg and endurance.. both work for me.
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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 13064
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

MikeD wrote:
Tue May 14, 2024 3:52 pm
1. You don't know how much sealant is in the tire because you are not removing the old liquid sealant.

2. You are mixing old sealant with new and thus lowering its sealing effectiveness.
I have a pretty good idea based on the intensity off the sloshing noises.

I’m 100% sure Orange Seal does not separate and also reasonably sure it doesn’t oxidize in some weird fashion. I have used several years old bottles of Orange Seal with no issues.



As for the cleaning discussion. All sealants can potentially stain clothes, but Silca is definitely one I would consider a lot harder to remove from hard surfaces. Both it and Vittoria’s Universal Sealant seem to harden quite a bit when dried to a thin layer.

MikeD
Posts: 1042
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:55 pm

by MikeD

TobinHatesYou wrote:
MikeD wrote:
Tue May 14, 2024 3:52 pm
1. You don't know how much sealant is in the tire because you are not removing the old liquid sealant.

2. You are mixing old sealant with new and thus lowering its sealing effectiveness.
I have a pretty good idea based on the intensity off the sloshing noises.

I’m 100% sure Orange Seal does not separate and also reasonably sure it doesn’t oxidize in some weird fashion. I have used several years old bottles of Orange Seal with no issues.



As for the cleaning discussion. All sealants can potentially stain clothes, but Silca is definitely one I would consider a lot harder to remove from hard surfaces. Both it and Vittoria’s Universal Sealant seem to harden quite a bit when dried to a thin layer.
If it didn't separate, than why do you have to shake it up?

RDY
Posts: 2587
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

BikeRumor 'tested' the new Pirellis. Dumbf**k testing them was proudly claiming he was running them at 80psi on Cadex hookless wheels ...

Hookless, aside from being fundamentally dangerous on narrow bike tires, shouldn't be a thing because people are too stupid ...

Jaisen
Posts: 690
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:01 am

by Jaisen

RDY wrote:
Wed May 15, 2024 3:20 pm
BikeRumor 'tested' the new Pirellis. Dumbf**k testing them was proudly claiming he was running them at 80psi on Cadex hookless wheels ...

Hookless, aside from being fundamentally dangerous on narrow bike tires, shouldn't be a thing because people are too stupid ...
At least someone, perhaps you?, was smart enough to call them out in the comments on such stupidity.

EtoDemerzel
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2023 4:13 pm

by EtoDemerzel

RDY wrote:
Wed May 15, 2024 3:20 pm
BikeRumor 'tested' the new Pirellis. Dumbf**k testing them was proudly claiming he was running them at 80psi on Cadex hookless wheels ...

Hookless, aside from being fundamentally dangerous on narrow bike tires, shouldn't be a thing because people are too stupid ...
The sad part is Pirelli's tire pressure chart clearly states
26 and narrower are NOT hookless compatible
28 and above are hookless compatible with 73psi/5bar max pressure limitation Yes, it is highlighted in red by Pirelli.

He posts the chart without this information and then uses hookless at 81psi. and says 77psi is his "sweet spot" on hookless.
this guy needs to stop writing articles. *and yes, hookless doesn't have a large enough margin of error to account for stupid.

**I have to amend this post bc it gets worse. They did post the chart w/ hookless warning at the top of the damn article but went 80psi anyway.
https://bikerumor.com/review-p-zero-rac ... e-to-date/
Last edited by EtoDemerzel on Wed May 15, 2024 10:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

toxin
Posts: 938
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2023 5:56 pm

by toxin

Smartest bike journalist

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 13064
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

MikeD wrote:
Wed May 15, 2024 2:59 pm
If it didn't separate, than why do you have to shake it up?

:roll:

You still have to shake it up to suspend the little silver pieces of glitter, as you would with every sealant that has solids in it. The latex does not separate from the carrier. If you ever want to see an extreme example of this, buy a bottle of Bontrager TLR and Orange Seal at the same time and leave them to sit for 2-3 years. By then the Bontrager TLR will have separated into a large gelatinous white latex blob and bluish/translucent carrier and there will be no way to reintegrate it with shaking. The Orange Seal will look the same as the day you bought it.

mikehhhhhhh
Posts: 468
Joined: Tue May 16, 2023 3:08 pm
Location: UK

by mikehhhhhhh

https://road.cc/content/tech-news/zipps ... NY7D5kwXx3

This is interesting, Zipp have collaborated with Goodyear to bring a 353nsw specific tyre that measures 30mm

So it's labelled 30mm, but if it measures 30 it's a 28mm in old money.

It's an intriguing prospect as a 353 owner, as I've avoided 28s to be on the safe side. But who knows how far the customisation goes or whether it's just a rebranded 28mm tyre.

Probably a bit niche to see it on BRR too

TheBelgian
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:09 am

by TheBelgian

EtoDemerzel wrote:
Wed May 15, 2024 5:08 pm
RDY wrote:
Wed May 15, 2024 3:20 pm
BikeRumor 'tested' the new Pirellis. Dumbf**k testing them was proudly claiming he was running them at 80psi on Cadex hookless wheels ...

Hookless, aside from being fundamentally dangerous on narrow bike tires, shouldn't be a thing because people are too stupid ...
The sad part is Pirelli's tire pressure chart clearly states
26 and narrower are NOT hookless compatible
28 and above are hookless compatible with 73psi/5bar max pressure limitation Yes, it is highlighted in red by Pirelli.

He posts the chart without this information and then uses hookless at 81psi. and says 77psi is his "sweet spot" on hookless.
this guy needs to stop writing articles. *and yes, hookless doesn't have a large enough margin of error to account for stupid.

**I have to amend this post bc it gets worse. They did post the chart w/ hookless warning at the top of the damn article but went 80psi anyway.
https://bikerumor.com/review-p-zero-rac ... e-to-date/
This is hilarious. What an idiot :lol:

Also, tire reviews like these are completely worthless. Except for the ease of mounting, how is the way he used to those tires in any way a good test that explains to the reader if these tires are worth it? It's 100% subjective.

"I felt a faster roll into some downhills, but it’s unsubstantiated."
"I felt faster on the super smooth and more well-maintained tarmac."
"That feeling could be the excitement of summer night racing or the new compound and lightened carcass of the tire. "

If you want to know a bit how a tire performs, go to the BRR website. At least they use fixed criteria. Pretty sure slamming some 21mm tires on your rims and inflating them to 100+psi (not on hookless, please!) will feel fast too.

pushpush
Posts: 377
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:10 am

by pushpush

Solutions vs Suspensions

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