Hookless and updated ISO Standards - Thomas De Gendt Crash

Wheels, Tires, Tubes, Tubeless, Tubs, Spokes, Hookless, Hubs, and more!

Moderator: robbosmans

Forum rules
The spirit of this board is to compile and organize wheels and tires related discussions.

If a new wheel tech is released, (say for example, TPU tubes, a brand new tire, or a new rim standard), feel free to start the discussion in the popular "Road". Your topic will eventually be moved here!
yinzerniner
Posts: 239
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:54 pm

by yinzerniner

AJS914 wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 4:39 am
Bonkers? Give me a break. I haven't gotten a fraking flat in 6 years!

I'm topping up with 60ml shaken in the bottle so by your estimates, I'm getting it just right.

Life is too short to weigh out sealant when I can just suck it up with a syringe, shoot it in and be done with it.
The other poster might've missed the part where you take out all the old sealant and then replenish it with a top up when you do your monthly refresh. But it seems like that's the best way to ensure best sealant performance, and 6 years without a flat is pretty "bonkers"

Then again the only times I've ever had an issue with tubeless road flat not sealing is when I forgot to check sealant level and also forgot the dynaplug.

Even with a huge construction screw through a tire that left a .5" diameter hole in the tire a dynaplug working with the sealant was enough to huff back the last 20 miles. The tire still lost pressure but only about 20-25psi, so by the end it was roughly 45-50.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



TobinHatesYou
Posts: 13062
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

yinzerniner wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 4:54 am

The other poster might've missed the part where you take out all the old sealant and then replenish it with a top up when you do your monthly refresh. But it seems like that's the best way to ensure best sealant performance, and 6 years without a flat is pretty "bonkers"

Then again the only times I've ever had an issue with tubeless road flat not sealing is when I forgot to check sealant level and also forgot the dynaplug.

Even with a huge construction screw through a tire that left a .5" diameter hole in the tire a dynaplug working with the sealant was enough to huff back the last 20 miles. The tire still lost pressure but only about 20-25psi, so by the end it was roughly 45-50.

pushpush is the poster who replaces “stale” sealant. AJS914 specifically says he tops up … and that he eventually cleaned out 10x60mL (wet) worth of dried latex.

Do you agree that 90mL in a road tire is nuts and an additional 60mL every month is even more nuts?

In a 28mm tire I start with 50mL, set a reminder for 3 months and then top up with 40mL. If I get a major squirter. I top up with 30mL. My tires typically only last through the end of one top-up anyway.

spdntrxi
Posts: 6023
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

Damn I'm cheap.. I start with 30mL and maybe top off with 10mL every couple months if that. I had a flat today with my airliner equipped wheelset.. heard the pfft , didn't see any sealent and it sealed. Figured it was near dry so put in about 15mL.
2024 BMC TeamMachine R
2018 BMC TImeMachine Road
2002 Moots Compact-SL
2019 Parlee Z0XD - "classified"
2023 Pivot E-Vault

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 13062
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

spdntrxi wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 5:43 am
Damn I'm cheap.. I start with 30mL and maybe top off with 10mL every couple months if that. I had a flat today with my airliner equipped wheelset.. heard the pfft , didn't see any sealent and it sealed. Figured it was near dry so put in about 15mL.

If it works for your tires, it works. I started with 35mL, but it's crept up over the years due to the sealant guzzling nature of cotton tubeless tires like the Strada Pro H-TLRs. 45mL went completely dry in 5 weeks, an outlier of course. The Pirelli P Zero Race TLR (SpeedCore) I'm using now are so airtight, they only lose about 2psi a day. That helps a lot as I pretty much only need a single stroke from my floor pump for each tire for daily rides, and that means no fresh dry air is going in.

I had a pair of last-gen Goodyear Eagle F1 SS TLC tires on a wheelset that hadn't been ridden in a year. There was still liquid sealant inside because those were even more airtight than the Pirellis.

pushpush
Posts: 377
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:10 am

by pushpush

Removal of stale sealant is trivial with regular removable valves.

Rotate wheel so valve is at the bottom. Remove valve. Insert string straw until it touches the inside of the tire. Use syringe to suck it all up. Purge syringe. Fill syringe with fresh sealant. Inject into valve. Insert valve. Done. If you are careful and prepared this entire process should take less than 1minute and not spill a single drop of sealant anywhere.

Sealant is cheap. The shame and inconvenience of calling for a ride or walking is expensive. The calculation to use more sealant is easy. :)

mikehhhhhhh
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue May 16, 2023 3:08 pm
Location: UK

by mikehhhhhhh

Is it just me that finds the concept of messing with adding and removing sealant through valves a ball ache?

I just pop the bead, lever off one small section of tyre and drain / refill. No mess, no guessing how much sealant there is and has the added benefit of being able to use a sealant with larger media.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 13062
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

mikehhhhhhh wrote:
Tue May 14, 2024 8:39 am
Is it just me that finds the concept of messing with adding and removing sealant through valves a ball ache?

I just pop the bead, lever off one small section of tyre and drain / refill. No mess, no guessing how much sealant there is and has the added benefit of being able to use a sealant with larger media.

It takes seconds. I grab my gram scale. I grab my old 4oz Orange Seal bottle. I tare the scale with the bottle on it. I add XX grams of sealant. I screw the special cap on and I inject the sealant straight through the Fillmore valve. Where is the "ball ache?"

Why would I use any other sealant with "larger media?" Silca's carbon fibers are useless and don't even go into punctures...they just sit on top of them until they fall off and form little boulders. Stan's XL particles are too large to be useful in road tires, and they accelerate the creation of Stanimals.

mikehhhhhhh
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue May 16, 2023 3:08 pm
Location: UK

by mikehhhhhhh

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Tue May 14, 2024 8:46 am
mikehhhhhhh wrote:
Tue May 14, 2024 8:39 am
Is it just me that finds the concept of messing with adding and removing sealant through valves a ball ache?

I just pop the bead, lever off one small section of tyre and drain / refill. No mess, no guessing how much sealant there is and has the added benefit of being able to use a sealant with larger media.

It takes seconds. I grab my gram scale. I grab my old 4oz Orange Seal bottle. I tare the scale with the bottle on it. I add XX grams of sealant. I screw the special cap on and I inject the sealant straight through the Fillmore valve. Where is the "ball ache?"

Why would I use any other sealant with "larger media?" Silca's carbon fibers are useless and don't even go into punctures...they just sit on top of them until they fall off and form little boulders. Stan's XL particles are too large to be useful in road tires, and they accelerate the creation of Stanimals.
Stanimals :lol:

I don't doubt the things you say are true, I'm just apprehensive to move from Stans because I've never had a puncture that didn't seal and don't have problems with media clumping.

AJS914
Posts: 5499
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

mikehhhhhhh wrote:
Tue May 14, 2024 8:39 am
Is it just me that finds the concept of messing with adding and removing sealant through valves a ball ache?

I just pop the bead
I tried that once - a messy ball ache for sure. I remove the core and inject right through the valve.

I'd never remove old sealant. I even have the syringe attachment that will go through the valve but I don't see any point (at least with Orange Seal).

No flats in six years since going tubeless road!
Last edited by AJS914 on Tue May 14, 2024 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MikeD
Posts: 1042
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:55 pm

by MikeD

TobinHatesYou wrote:
mikehhhhhhh wrote:
Tue May 14, 2024 8:39 am
Is it just me that finds the concept of messing with adding and removing sealant through valves a ball ache?

I just pop the bead, lever off one small section of tyre and drain / refill. No mess, no guessing how much sealant there is and has the added benefit of being able to use a sealant with larger media.

It takes seconds. I grab my gram scale. I grab my old 4oz Orange Seal bottle. I tare the scale with the bottle on it. I add XX grams of sealant. I screw the special cap on and I inject the sealant straight through the Fillmore valve. Where is the "ball ache?"

Why would I use any other sealant with "larger media?" Silca's carbon fibers are useless and don't even go into punctures...they just sit on top of them until they fall off and form little boulders. Stan's XL particles are too large to be useful in road tires, and they accelerate the creation of Stanimals.
1. You don't know how much sealant is in the tire because you are not removing the old liquid sealant.

2. You are mixing old sealant with new and thus lowering its sealing effectiveness.

AJS914
Posts: 5499
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Do you have a white paper on #2? :D

I think it depends on the sealant. Orange Seal doesn't seem to turn into a watery solution on me. It just dries out. I've heard that Stan's can turn into just water and no more latex. If that is the case, it could be wise to take out old water/sealant.

With Orange, I just keep topping up until the tire is ready to be swapped out. Works for me. No road flats in 6 years now. Yes, I know Tobin thinks I'm crazy but I think he's crazy for weighing his sealant.

MikeD
Posts: 1042
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:55 pm

by MikeD

AJS914 wrote:Do you have a white paper on #2? :D

I think it depends on the sealant. Orange Seal doesn't seem to turn into a watery solution on me. It just dries out. I've heard that Stan's can turn into just water and no more latex. If that is the case, it could be wise to take out old water/sealant.

With Orange, I just keep topping up until the tire is ready to be swapped out. Works for me. No road flats in 6 years now. Yes, I know Tobin thinks I'm crazy but I think he's crazy for weighing his sealant.
Sealant has a shelf life in the bottle, opened. Look it up. I've had sealant (OS Endurance) not seal even though it was still liquid.

TheBelgian
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:09 am

by TheBelgian

mikehhhhhhh wrote:
Tue May 14, 2024 8:39 am
Is it just me that finds the concept of messing with adding and removing sealant through valves a ball ache?

I just pop the bead, lever off one small section of tyre and drain / refill. No mess, no guessing how much sealant there is and has the added benefit of being able to use a sealant with larger media.
It takes a lot more fiddling around to remove a section of tire big enough to add/remove sealant, especially if the tire is glued to the rim with sealant. Moreover, I have tires I can't lever off without unseating the tire on the other side too.

mikehhhhhhh
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue May 16, 2023 3:08 pm
Location: UK

by mikehhhhhhh

TheBelgian wrote:
Tue May 14, 2024 6:18 pm
mikehhhhhhh wrote:
Tue May 14, 2024 8:39 am
Is it just me that finds the concept of messing with adding and removing sealant through valves a ball ache?

I just pop the bead, lever off one small section of tyre and drain / refill. No mess, no guessing how much sealant there is and has the added benefit of being able to use a sealant with larger media.
It takes a lot more fiddling around to remove a section of tire big enough to add/remove sealant, especially if the tire is glued to the rim with sealant. Moreover, I have tires I can't lever off without unseating the tire on the other side too.
Oh, I have to unseat the whole tyre. Getting it to reseat would be very difficult without the whole tyre in the centre channel anyway.

I don't seem to find any of my tyres difficult to remove though

Stans does indeed go watery though.

How often are people having to top up orange seal?

TheBelgian
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:09 am

by TheBelgian

I started using Silca. Means I only have to fill directly in the tire once, at first install, and then 3 top ups through the valve before removing the tire after 12 months to clean up and restart.

I can also confirm that Silca is reasonably easy to clean off the frame and other surfaces. How do I know? I blew a tire from a rim a couple of days ago and splattered my garage in sealant, including door and ceiling.

I used to use Oko sealant but that was a nightmare to clean up. Had it on my bike frame once. The horror ...

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Post Reply