Being a weight weenie-- aluminum nipples still considered bad? CX-Sprint vs. CX-Ray?

[ppg677]

It seems like the Carbon wheelset I'm building will be north of 1700 grams unless I start taking some weight weenie adjustments. Road bike stored indoors.

I've already purchased Shimano RS770 hubs which I know aren't the lightest-- figure 400grams for the set. I got a killer deal on them, like the silver, like Shimano quiet freehubs, and appreciate old-school cone/cup bearings.

Light Bicycle AR56 rims: 470g each==> 940g

28-holes on front and back

So now I'm at spokes and spoke nipples. I was going to go Sapim CX-Sprint because I'm finding my supplier to have them at 30% cheaper than CX-Ray. But that would cost me 51 grams.

I was going to go brass nipples instead of aluminum, but that would cost me 39.5 grams.

So for the sake of being a weight weenie, I was thinking CX-Ray all around (or maybe CX-Sprint for just the rear drive side). And aluminum nipples.

Which puts me at: 236g for CX-Ray + 19g for nipples + 940g rims + 400g hubs ==> 1600 gram wheelset not including rim tape and rotors

Versus nearly 1690 grams if I went all CX-Sprint and all brass nipples.

I've never needed to tru wheels I've built in the past. I weigh 95kg. Not racing but upgrading heavy stock wheels for obviously better looks and perhaps a bit better performance.

[nickf]

So for the sake of being a weight weenie, I was thining CX-Ray all around (or maybe CX-Sprint for just the rear drive side). And aluminum nipples.

I have this exact setup on 2 sets of wheels. Zero issues. It's a great setup for a lightweight strong wheel build. I have also been using alloy nipples for years. I can't even remember owning a wheel with brass nipples.

[ppg677]

So for the sake of being a weight weenie, I was thining CX-Ray all around (or maybe CX-Sprint for just the rear drive side). And aluminum nipples.

I have this exact setup on 2 sets of wheels. Zero issues. It's a great setup for a lightweight strong wheel build. I have also been using alloy nipples for years. I can't even remember owning a wheel with brass nipples.

Cx-Ray all around including drive-side rear spokes? I figure my choice of 28 spokes provides more durability compared to beefier spokes.

[nickf]

So for the sake of being a weight weenie, I was thining CX-Ray all around (or maybe CX-Sprint for just the rear drive side). And aluminum nipples.

I have this exact setup on 2 sets of wheels. Zero issues. It's a great setup for a lightweight strong wheel build. I have also been using alloy nipples for years. I can't even remember owning a wheel with brass nipples.

Cx-Ray all around including drive-side rear spokes? I figure my choice of 28 spokes provides more durability compared to beefier spokes.

cx sprint drive ride rear, cx ray everywhere else.

Depending on your weight 28 spokes with that setup will be plenty strong.

[bobones]

Brass nipples won't corrode or seize. I've had to rebuild carbon wheels where galvanic corrosion has weakened nipples causing multiple spoke breakage after 3 or 4 years. This might not be such a problem if you don't ride in the wet or use nipple washers.

When it came to reriming one of my aluminum wheels that I'd built with alu nipples, there were many I couldn't loosen and ended up having to cut spokes.

I've have another set of carbon wheels were one spoke had broken at the nipple while sitting in storage just from the spoke tension. On inspection I could see tell-tale white spots of alu corrosion on some of the other nipple heads so I am about to rebuild it with Sapim black brass nipples.

The handful of grams saved with alu is only noticeable when the bike is on weighing scales and I am now of the opinion that I'd rather have the reliabilty, durability and ease of maintenance of brass.

[Steve Curtis]

Brass nipples won't corrode or seize. I've had to rebuild carbon wheels where galvanic corrosion has weakened nipples causing multiple spoke breakage after 3 or 4 years. This might not be such a problem if you don't ride in the wet or use nipple washers.

When it came to reriming one of my aluminum wheels that I'd built with alu nipples, there were many I couldn't loosen and ended up having to cut spokes.

I've have another set of carbon wheels were one spoke had broken at the nipple while sitting in storage just from the spoke tension. On inspection I could see tell-tale white spots of alu corrosion on some of the other nipple heads so I am about to rebuild it with Sapim black brass nipples.

The handful of grams saved with alu is only noticeable when the bike is on weighing scales and I am now of the opinion that I'd rather have the reliabilty, durability and ease of maintenance of brass.

This ^ absolutely 100% agree.

Has the same issues, had to cut spokes and rebuild again. All for 40 grams.
I never buy or build with alloy nipples now, I just can't be bothered with the hassle for such a small weight difference.

[wheelbuilder]

The 2 posters above are correct. Maintenance rebuilds over the life of the wheel have to be considered when using aluminum. They do corrode, they do crack, and they do seize. Some environments and cleaning habits are better than others, but I do full rebuilds every 18 months or so if not once a year. I do live on the coast.

[robertbb]

With so much written in recent years about how weight is nowhere even in the same league of importance as people once thought it was, it still perplexes me we are having such conversations. 40 grams!

(Use brass nipples).

[frnchy]

I've had zero problems with the alloy nipples on my LB WR50's for the last 3 years, and they have no problem turning freely either. Same story on my friend's pair of AR56's which he's had for even longer. Both wheelsets have seen a decent number of grungy winter miles, though admittedly not very much salt.

[Juanmoretime]

I've broke a few alloy nipples. Still use them and have them on all my wheelsets. I have a front wheel with almost 35,000 miles on it and the original alloy nipples. The rerar I've had to have respoked twice in the same amount of mileage. I can say I'm pretty hard on wheels.

[OtterSpace]

To me this is one where bike mechanics correctly see all the real problems coming in for repair but not the many cases of wheels having no issues so they give overly conservative advice.

Decide based on your local riding conditions and risk torance.

I live in CA where it rarely rains and not on the coast so I don't see the need for brass on my personal builds. However, if I lived near the coast, was double the weight, lived where they salt the roads, planed to use the wheel on an indoor trainer, or never cleaned or maintained my bike then I would go brass.

[nickf]

A little drop of lube goes a long way to fend off corrosion. Never had a failed alloy nipple.

[hannawald]

You can´t build a weightweenie wheelset and use such parts:) I don´t know what is your weight and how many watts you can produce but you build your wheelset very conservatively. You take an aero rim and put there 28 spokes (I don´t know about any branded manufacturer using that nowadays). And you think about brass nipples (is it a cyclocross or winter wheelset?) and heavy spokes...

[ppg677]

You can´t build a weightweenie wheelset and use such parts:) I don´t know what is your weight and how many watts you can produce but you build your wheelset very conservatively. You take an aero rim and put there 28 spokes (I don´t know about any branded manufacturer using that nowadays). And you think about brass nipples (is it a cyclocross or winter wheelset?) and heavy spokes...

I weigh 95kg. The Shimano hubs cost me about 100 grams compared to something like DT 240.

Building 28/28 versus 24/20 costs me about another 60 grams.

Yes it all adds up. I did order 42 Cx-Ray spokes and 14 Cx-Sprint.

I also ordered brass nipples but am still wondering if I should just go alloy to save 40 grams!! Because that's almost equivalent to the extra weight from the additional spokes!

[hannawald]

You can´t build a weightweenie wheelset and use such parts:) I don´t know what is your weight and how many watts you can produce but you build your wheelset very conservatively. You take an aero rim and put there 28 spokes (I don´t know about any branded manufacturer using that nowadays). And you think about brass nipples (is it a cyclocross or winter wheelset?) and heavy spokes...

I weigh 95kg. The Shimano hubs cost me about 100 grams compared to something like DT 240.

Building 28/28 versus 24/20 costs me about another 60 grams.

Yes it all adds up. I did order 42 Cx-Ray spokes and 14 Cx-Sprint.

I also ordered brass nipples but am still wondering if I should just go alloy to save 40 grams!! Because that's almost equivalent to the extra weight from the additional spokes!

I don´t ride when it is sub zero on salty roads so I would choose aluminium. It is a good standard for high end wheelset.