Best rim brake carbon wheelset for heavy rider for flat group rides

[Jack65]

Case scenario:
rider
+/- 85 kg experienced rider in his 50-ties. Struggling to keep up on group rides with a group of buddies.
bike
Specialized Tarmac SL6 rim brake with Direct Mount brakes.
aim
Speeed and durability, weight is not important
terrain and surface
pan flat, lots of wind, on a 100 km loop, around 90 km of good tarmac, few km of cracked one, occasionaly short strips of dirt roads on some rides

I currently own a couple of wheelsets. Some old carbon tubular FFWD that I want sell. alloy-carbon Fulcrum Red Wind XLR 50 mm and Roval CLX 64 rear and CL 50 front. The braking is so-so on this wheelset but I don't ride in bad weather and don't plan to use it for rolling terrain. The advantage is that these are very wide rims that can be used with 28 mm tires. I don't plan to ride tubeless.

One guy is selling his Zipps 404 Firecrest 2018 with Showstopper brake track for the same amount I could get for Rovals. Do you think it would be a good swap? I would get more durable rims with much better braking track. I guess aerodynamics would be about the same?

I could eventually get 808 rear to get 404/808 combo. I also have access to Zipp 858 front that sits in my son's TT bike.

[Steve Curtis]

You think changing wheels will enable you to keep up on group rides?
At best there may be a couple of watts difference between your current wheels and the very best. Swapping to the fastest tyres would probably offer bigger gains, but even then, probably not enough to make a difference big enough close the gap.

[MrCurrieinahurry]

I got my arse kicked last weekend on a spicy section of the group ride I was on with my winter bike (bmc narrow very shallow rims with rubinos on)... Now I'm sure I would have hung on a bit longer on my Basso with 60mm deep wtos and Corsa nexts but Id say that's a pretty big change and still defo only worth a handful of watts.
Honestly if I was you id look at Getting a decent block of training in instead. Perhaps look at some coaching?

Basso Diamante rim Campagnolo EPS 12 Bora WTO 60's

[MrCurrieinahurry]

What's the full build list of the bike? You have any pics?

Basso Diamante rim Campagnolo EPS 12 Bora WTO 60's

[Jack65]

Training is not an issue as I'm currently restricted by pacemaker. So I just need few BPM less as I'm on the edge of my pacemaker capabilities riding with buddies of about same age.

The build of the bike is pretty ok. My son was racing it in UCI junior races. SL6 Expert with Ultegra Di2 and Roval wheelset and fast Spesh Turbo Cotton tires.

[Mr.Gib]

Everything looks pretty good. As such there is not much you can do with equipment that will keep you from getting dropped. The obvious full aero treatment for the bike and you (narrow bars etc.) is never wasted, but will not make a difference in the draft, which is where you will be just before you get dropped. Fast tires work in all situatuations. Conti TT can be used as everyday tire on decent surface.

Beware of heavy wheels. Super deep is aero but if you are getting dropped during accelerations, shallow and light can be a better choice. Surprising number of shallow wheels used by the top riders in the pro peleton for this very reason.

Sorry about your pacemaker situation - that is the real culprit here. Best of luck.

[Jack65]

Beware of heavy wheels. Super deep is aero but if you are getting dropped during accelerations, shallow and light can be a better choice. Surprising number of shallow wheels used by the top riders in the pro peleton for this very reason.

I've seen a podcast recently with Jean Paul Ballard of Swiss Side. They tested deep section wheels agains lower weight wheels in criterium. Lighweight Meilenstein 1150 grams 48 mm deep vs SwissSide Hadron 62 mm deep 1550 grams. Over a crit course of one hour at 40 km/h, Hadrons won by 20 seconds. The test was to show that rotating weight was a myth.

[CampagYOLO]

Beware of heavy wheels. Super deep is aero but if you are getting dropped during accelerations, shallow and light can be a better choice. Surprising number of shallow wheels used by the top riders in the pro peleton for this very reason.

I've seen a podcast recently with Jean Paul Ballard of Swiss Side. They tested deep section wheels agains lower weight wheels in criterium. Lighweight Meilenstein 1150 grams 48 mm deep vs SwissSide Hadron 62 mm deep 1550 grams. Over a crit course of one hour at 40 km/h, Hadrons won by 20 seconds. The test was to show that rotating weight was a myth.

Seems a bit weird to not test wheels of the same depth but differing weight? 14mm of additional depth is a significant amount IMO.

Also the Lightweights are very narrow so it's difficult to have a smooth transition from rim to tyre, something that's much easier to do with the wider SwissSide wheels.

[spdntrxi]

stay out of the wind.. take shorter pulls or pull on the downhill portions. Start at the front if you have a small incline, so you can fade back. I dont think wheels are the solution, ride smarter to keep in the group.

[cnsn]

I think any wheelset with a modern profile and above average hubs will work for you. IMO you should spend as less as possible on a rim brake wheelset today since the tech is a bit obsolete. I will recommend 50mm deep rims which works really well in every situation but if you climb lot then you might consider ~40mm which is quicker on climbs. Since you are a bit on the heavy side I will also recommend hooked rims. It seems chinese brands like Winspace and Farsports are good options if you don't want to buy used but otherwise I would prefer a set which has easy maintanence and has parts on the market that you can buy easily. Also I wouldn't buy a tubular one but it is a personal preference again.

[Jack65]

I think any wheelset with a modern profile and above average hubs will work for you. IMO you should spend as less as possible on a rim brake wheelset today since the tech is a bit obsolete. I will recommend 50mm deep rims which works really well in every situation but if you climb lot then you might consider ~40mm which is quicker on climbs. Since you are a bit on the heavy side I will also recommend hooked rims. It seems chinese brands like Winspace and Farsports are good options if you don't want to buy used but otherwise I would prefer a set which has easy maintanence and has parts on the market that you can buy easily. Also I wouldn't buy a tubular one but it is a personal preference again.

I don't climb at all. All I need is fast durable wheels for flat riding. I already bought Zipp 404 Firecrest 2018. I also don't need 50 mm or lower. I've been riding 58 mm or Roval CLX 64 mm without any problems. I could only go higher eventually to get free speed.

I was on the phone today with my buddy who is doing testing on the velodrome on regular basis. He tested his high quality TT Chinese wheels with Pillar Wing Spokes (disc plus 88 mm front) againt cheap, low quality ones used by some Conti teams with Sapim aero spokes. Same hubs, same tires. The difference was 15W at around 45 km/h. So good product against low quality product definitely wins. We guess that low quality carbon gives out structurally and the stiffness is a factor.