looking for light, comfy, fast wheel - 353nsw?

[twoangstroms]

I feel you on crap/cracked/rough roads (though we don't have frost heaves here). My stock Reserves have been relatively comfy, durable, and super-stable in the high crosswinds and gusts, though they're not super light. Some tires are verrry tight. 303s definitely feel lighter (and are) and quicker to accellerate, though I wish I'd gone with 404s. The 353 seems like a fantastic choice!

[mikehhhhhhh]

I've been running tubeless on both hooked and hookless rims for about 18 months and 15,000kms now.

Hard to complain. Hooked rims and tyres fail too.

[Nickldn]

^ I would not go anywhere near hookless wheels at the moment. Too many risks to offset the attractive weight.

Risks? Like what?

Do a search. There are quite a few threads in the past 12 months covering hookless wheel woes, tales of serious injury and spontaneously exploding tyres.

With no bead hooks there's really not much to keep a tyre on the rim in the event of a loss of pressure. I for one prefer the security of hooks to maximise the chances of a tyre staying on the rim, just think about that if you're riding a 50mph descent. The other documented issue with hookless seems to be that in hot conditions, such as if your bike is put in the back of a car and in direct sunlight, air pressure can rise to the point the tyre blows off the rim. Again, not something I want to deal with.

For the moment I'm staying with hooked wheels.

[mikehhhhhhh]

The other documented issue with hookless seems to be that in hot conditions, such as if your bike is put in the back of a car and in direct sunlight, air pressure can rise to the point the tyre blows off the rim. Again, not something I want to deal with.

For the moment I'm staying with hooked wheels.

This sounds like a fabrication.

Even a tyre that started at 65psi and 15c would only reach 85psi at 100c!

[goodboyr]

PV=NRT would beg to differ with the urban legend of tires blowing up in hot cars. BTW, this urban legend started in triathlon circles with hooked clincher tires.

Sent from my SM-S918W using Tapatalk

[mikehhhhhhh]

Well, pulled the trigger on a set of 353NSW this morning.

Managed to find them a bit cheaper too! Sigmasports have them for a little over £2600 if you buy them individually. I shall report back once I've ridden then

[Nickldn]

The other documented issue with hookless seems to be that in hot conditions, such as if your bike is put in the back of a car and in direct sunlight, air pressure can rise to the point the tyre blows off the rim. Again, not something I want to deal with.

For the moment I'm staying with hooked wheels.

This sounds like a fabrication.

Even a tyre that started at 65psi and 15c would only reach 85psi at 100c!

I'm not so sure it's a fabrication. Even in your example 85psi is far in excess of the 72psi hookless limit. BTW there have been posts from established forum members (backed up by videos) of hookless tyres coming off the rim at pressure well below 72psi without heat and sunlight.

Not trying to scare you, or anything like that, but it's good to be fully aware of the issues with hookless. BTW Giant now allows a selection of tyres to run above 72psi on its hookless rims, so times are a changing:

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/hookless-technology

[mikehhhhhhh]

The other documented issue with hookless seems to be that in hot conditions, such as if your bike is put in the back of a car and in direct sunlight, air pressure can rise to the point the tyre blows off the rim. Again, not something I want to deal with.

For the moment I'm staying with hooked wheels.

This sounds like a fabrication.

Even a tyre that started at 65psi and 15c would only reach 85psi at 100c!

I'm not so sure it's a fabrication. Even in your example 85psi is far in excess of the 72psi hookless limit. BTW there have been posts from established forum members (backed up by videos) of hookless tyres coming off the rim at pressure well below 72psi without heat and sunlight.

Not trying to scare you, or anything like that, but it's good to be fully aware of the issues with hookless. BTW Giant now allows a selection of tyres to run above 72psi on its hookless rims, so times are a changing:

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/hookless-technology

85psi is beyond the spec but not enough to blow a tyre off the rim. Many have tested them well over 100psi. Would you care to share videos of hookless tyres blowing off at 72psi?

It's also not going to reach 100c, that's an extreme example.

You'll not scare me, I've been running hookless for a good 18 months already.

[Nickldn]

Would you care to share videos of hookless tyres blowing off at 72psi?

You'll not scare me, I've been running hookless for a good 18 months already.

Here's a link to the (in)famous thread:

viewtopic.php?f=132&t=173306

There are many other instances documented on WW, some unfortunately causing serious rider injury according to the accounts provided. In sure you can do your own search if you're interested.

[Lina]

PV=NRT would beg to differ with the urban legend of tires blowing up in hot cars. BTW, this urban legend started in triathlon circles with hooked clincher tires.

Sent from my SM-S918W using Tapatalk

85psi is beyond the spec but not enough to blow a tyre off the rim. Many have tested them well over 100psi. Would you care to share videos of hookless tyres blowing off at 72psi?

It's also not going to reach 100c, that's an extreme example.

You'll not scare me, I've been running hookless for a good 18 months already.

The other documented issue with hookless seems to be that in hot conditions, such as if your bike is put in the back of a car and in direct sunlight, air pressure can rise to the point the tyre blows off the rim. Again, not something I want to deal with.

For the moment I'm staying with hooked wheels.

This sounds like a fabrication.

Even a tyre that started at 65psi and 15c would only reach 85psi at 100c!

You wanna revise your statement that hookless is safe? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmxylplJJWQ

That is recommended pressure, manufacturer recommended tire on a rim.

Yes, on closer inspection the rim was very slightly below the ETRTO limits. But are you willing to bet your life that bike companies can produce carbon fiber products that are within spec? When it's very well documented with bottom brackets that they can't make a round hole within specs.

ETRTO themselves have revised hookless tire recommendations and now it's now 29 mm MINIMUM tire width for hookless. Everyone involved knows hookless is not a good idea on the road but they keep pushing it because it's cheaper to make. And gullible idiots keep buying.

[Lina]

There's also been examples of tubeless blowouts in pro racing. And they seem to happen mostly to teams that are running hookless wheels.

[Nickldn]

I'm not being melodramatic when I say hookless is more risky. It's common sense that hooked rims increase security and reduce tyre issues, because the hooks provide an important extra form of protection.

As Lina says, are you willing to bet your life the wheels and tyres you buy are up to spec? The cycling industry is well known for low tolerances and bad QC, that's why hookless rims on a road bike are a gamble.

[mikehhhhhhh]

PV=NRT would beg to differ with the urban legend of tires blowing up in hot cars. BTW, this urban legend started in triathlon circles with hooked clincher tires.

Sent from my SM-S918W using Tapatalk

85psi is beyond the spec but not enough to blow a tyre off the rim. Many have tested them well over 100psi. Would you care to share videos of hookless tyres blowing off at 72psi?

It's also not going to reach 100c, that's an extreme example.

You'll not scare me, I've been running hookless for a good 18 months already.

The other documented issue with hookless seems to be that in hot conditions, such as if your bike is put in the back of a car and in direct sunlight, air pressure can rise to the point the tyre blows off the rim. Again, not something I want to deal with.

For the moment I'm staying with hooked wheels.

This sounds like a fabrication.

Even a tyre that started at 65psi and 15c would only reach 85psi at 100c!

You wanna revise your statement that hookless is safe? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmxylplJJWQ

That is recommended pressure, manufacturer recommended tire on a rim.

Yes, on closer inspection the rim was very slightly below the ETRTO limits. But are you willing to bet your life that bike companies can produce carbon fiber products that are within spec? When it's very well documented with bottom brackets that they can't make a round hole within specs.

ETRTO themselves have revised hookless tire recommendations and now it's now 29 mm MINIMUM tire width for hookless. Everyone involved knows hookless is not a good idea on the road but they keep pushing it because it's cheaper to make. And gullible idiots keep buying.

Shock horror as wheel brand I've never heard of makes out of spec wheel that doesn't work properly.

The same may be true of a wheel with hooks out of spec too.

Come on, this example is really clutching at straws.

You have to have faith in wheel and tyre manufacturers full stop. If it's not hookless spec it's hooked spec, carbon quality, build quality, spoke, hub quality, tyre quality. Why second guess them on one subject based on some layman logic and a video you saw on the internet?

This is why I wouldn't ride cheap Chinese wheels.

Tyres/rims have failed long before hookless.

[Guevarca]

Maybe if interest to someone (U.K.) but will be listing my 353s for sale later as news to shift them on for a quick sale...

[Lina]

Shock horror as wheel brand I've never heard of makes out of spec wheel that doesn't work properly.

The same may be true of a wheel with hooks out of spec too.

Come on, this example is really clutching at straws.

You have to have faith in wheel and tyre manufacturers full stop. If it's not hookless spec it's hooked spec, carbon quality, build quality, spoke, hub quality, tyre quality. Why second guess them on one subject based on some layman logic and a video you saw on the internet?

This is why I wouldn't ride cheap Chinese wheels.

Tyres/rims have failed long before hookless.

What about brands like Trek, Specialized, Cannondale struggling with making round holes that are the right size? Have you heard of any of them? So much that they've all gone back to threaded BBs because they couldn't make press fit BBs within specs so that the BBs would work reliably. Just because you've not heard of a brand doesn't mean it's some shop in a backyard shed. Before that you were claiming it's impossible to have a blowout at 85 psi. Now it's only some specific brands of wheels? Sounds hella like goalpost moving to me.

If you've ever tried different tires on the same wheelset you know that there's massive differences in tires. There's differences between different models of tires and even within different batches of the same model. The same goes with rims. I ask you again, are you willing to risk your life on both the tire and the rim manufacturers getting it right just right? We all know the QC record even established bike brands have had. And the margins for error are massively smaller on hookless. We all know how they've made idiotic design choices that have come to bike them after. Hell half the full integration solutions are full off problems. Hookless is bad design for road use.

Yes, it's possible for hooked design to also be out of spec, but the margins for error are vastly bigger in hooked rims. You would be able to tell it by just eyeballing and feel it while mounting that something is wrong with the rim if it was so out of spec that a tire could blow out within normal operating pressure. You'd also probably have massive issues with getting it to seat simply because either the rim or the tire would have to be so much out of spec.

And sure, it's possible for a hooked rim to fail or a tire to fail. However those are extremely rare cases, and if you're worried about that then hooked tubeless with inserts is about the safest you can get. Even safer than tubulars.