Aeolus 37 vs 37v rims for pavement riding on 28mm tires?

[Aress]

FYI in france

95% of racers are on 25s

[Matte86]

Besides the conditions of the roads each of us is riding which influence a lot on tyre choice, imho as long as nominal width of most tyres is different from their WAM —> bigger as a nominal number isn’t quite useful
For example 26c Turbo Cottons on a 21IW in reality are 28s, a 5000 TT 25c on a 21IW are almost 28… so yes I’m running 28s
If I’d go the 28/30 route, those would be 30/32 at least depending on tyres..
regarding pros riding 28 and above, we shouldn’t forget that sponsored athletes with hookless rims don’t have many choices
Ie Pogacar on 25IW Enve rims cannot run a 25c and for us consumer even a 28 isn’t a super advisable choice

The only teams on hookless rims are UAE, Movistar and Jayco.

I race most of my road season on 31-32mm WAM tires and have been known to podium. I do whip out my 25mm GP5K TTs on 19mm/28mm ENVE SES 5.6s for a couple of races on really smooth pavement, but yes, for most races I am definitely going to be faster and less likely to DNF on wider tires.

I know you are super aero efficient and I learnt a trick or 2 from you (EC discord) and a savvy racer, but wouldn’t a 25c nominal, but actually a 28 (WAM) faster in most of your races where your average speed is high?
I’m not talking about recreational rides, but in those times when you need to maximize everything
Regarding DNF wouldn’t be better to run a 25c nominal with tyre inserts?
Here in north west Italy there’s a broad range of tyre widths with Specialized and Pirelli in 26c are the most common
Strange enough very few Corsa Pro and Challenge RS

[Jaisen]

Besides the conditions of the roads each of us is riding which influence a lot on tyre choice, imho as long as nominal width of most tyres is different from their WAM —> bigger as a nominal number isn’t quite useful
For example 26c Turbo Cottons on a 21IW in reality are 28s, a 5000 TT 25c on a 21IW are almost 28… so yes I’m running 28s
If I’d go the 28/30 route, those would be 30/32 at least depending on tyres..
regarding pros riding 28 and above, we shouldn’t forget that sponsored athletes with hookless rims don’t have many choices
Ie Pogacar on 25IW Enve rims cannot run a 25c and for us consumer even a 28 isn’t a super advisable choice

The only teams on hookless rims are UAE, Movistar and Jayco.

I race most of my road season on 31-32mm WAM tires and have been known to podium. I do whip out my 25mm GP5K TTs on 19mm/28mm ENVE SES 5.6s for a couple of races on really smooth pavement, but yes, for most races I am definitely going to be faster and less likely to DNF on wider tires.

I know you are super aero efficient and I learnt a trick or 2 from you (EC discord) and a savvy racer, but wouldn’t a 25c nominal, but actually a 28 (WAM) faster in most of your races where your average speed is high?
I’m not talking about recreational rides, but in those times when you need to maximize everything
Regarding DNF wouldn’t be better to run a 25c nominal with tyre inserts?
Here in north west Italy there’s a broad range of tyre widths with Specialized and Pirelli in 26c are the most common
Strange enough very few Corsa Pro and Challenge RS

Regarding the speed of the two tires. BRR tested rolling resistance and they were the same. There was a tiny advantage to wider tires but it was not meaningful in real world applications. Regarding aerodynamic drag, Tour Magazin did a test a while back, I can't find the article right now, where into a headwind there was no difference between the nominal 25c and 28c tires. Into a crosswind, the 25c tires were a little better. At the standard 45km/h test protocol, the differences were less than 2.5w per tire, so a max difference of 5w.

If every single part of your setup is perfectly aero optimized and you ran a 25c vs a 28c nominal tire you will not notice the difference out in the real world. The 5w in crosswind conditions is within the margin of error of those tests. You might, depending on how sensitive you are to your bike, feel the improved comfort and grip for the wider tire.

Cyclists, especially road cyclists, are notorious for being slow adopters of new tech. Instead of looking solely at the data, we like to stick to what we are used to. We buy into myths easily, and of course, some of us are superstitious. If you look at the hard data though, I for one find it hard to justify the narrower tires.

[Mr.Gib]

Regarding aerodynamic drag, Tour Magazin did a test a while back, I can't find the article right now, where into a headwind there was no difference between the nominal 25c and 28c tires.

This literally says less frontal area is equal to more frontal area. That's a pretty tough sell don't you think?

Cyclists, especially road cyclists, are notorious for being slow adopters of new tech. Instead of looking solely at the data, we like to stick to what we are used to. We buy into myths easily, and of course, some of us are superstitious.

You have some data to support this? Maybe road cyclist just hate spending money on something new when everything they currently ride works perfectly well and is far from wearing out.

[Jaisen]

Regarding aerodynamic drag, Tour Magazin did a test a while back, I can't find the article right now, where into a headwind there was no difference between the nominal 25c and 28c tires.

This literally says less frontal area is equal to more frontal area. That's a pretty tough sell don't you think?

Cyclists, especially road cyclists, are notorious for being slow adopters of new tech. Instead of looking solely at the data, we like to stick to what we are used to. We buy into myths easily, and of course, some of us are superstitious.

You have some data to support this? Maybe road cyclist just hate spending money on something new when everything they currently ride works perfectly well and is far from wearing out.

Regarding your second point, we are discussing what is optimal. It is totally fine to ride old perfectly functional equipment for as long as it is safe to. I rode my Trek Madone for 13 years before I changed to a newer bike, not because I needed one but I just felt like having something new. So I am no stranger to sticking with the tried and true. As for data, no this is just my observation.

Regarding your first point, it isn't so simple as just looking at the frontal area. A cube and sphere of the same frontal area will not perform the same aerodynamically. There are a lot of variables to take into consideration. Also keep in mind, there are details unavailable to us at this moment. For example, suppose the rims used for this test were the same and only the tires differed in their widths. Suppose further that the rims were wider externally than the widest tire. Then your frontal area remains the same, and it is merely the leading edge shape which differs. So no it wouldn't be saying less frontal area is equal to more, not in the least.

Furthermore if you don't trust the Tour Magazin results, or my summary of it, then you can go to YouTube and watch the Peak Torque video. He did a test outdoors comparing 28c tires to 32c tires. On the first set of rims the 32c tire outperformed the 28c tire. On the second set of rims the 28c tire was the fastests. You can see the graph at 12:27.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_e5tlM5Gi8

[Mr.Gib]

@Jaisen, my crack about having data was in jest because it was cleary opinion following in close proximity by "if you look at the hard data".

As for a tire with more frontal area being as aero as a tire with less frontal area, we are comparing optimized 25mm and 28mm tire/rim combos are we not? Doing otherwise teaches us nothing. I am glad tires aren't cube shaped. Cornering would really suck.

FWIW, by 2017/18 I was riding 28 and 30mm at 65 psi on the widest rims I could get at the time. 100% agree that wider (with appropriate rim) is nearly always better. I am amused by people who worry about a theoretical watt or two who have never pinned on a number in their lives and ride around in flapping clothing sitting straight up.

[Matte86]

I’m not against wider tyres on the contrary being an age group athlete who race and try to optimize as much as possible myself and my equipment I struggle(d) to see a benefit in wider tyres
In my eyes it was like bike brands trying to squeeze every watt possible from a frameset and then offer it with a wide handlebar.. a 28c nominal which has a bigger frontal area and weight more looks disadvantageous ( clearly the handlebar has a bigger impact compared to a 25vs28 width)
Probably I’m biased based on the roads and routes I ride where I can get away with a 28 VAM
Anyway thanks anyone for the inputs

[wheelbuilder]

Not the thread for me to interject the "wider tire craze was created to enable disc brakes to perform better with a larger contact patch" is it?