Aeolus 37 vs 37v rims for pavement riding on 28mm tires?

[ppg677]

I plan on riding 28mm tires (or maybe 28 front and 30 rear). Pavement riding only with a Canyon Endurace bike.

Should I get the Bontrager Aeolus 37 or 37v ?

37 have 21mm inner diameter and 28mm outer.

37v have 25mm inner and 31.5mm outer

I believe the 37 is optimal for a 25mm tire, whereas the 37v are best for for 30mm and up?

There seems to be a lot of debate over which rim width is more optimal for a 28mm tire. Many claim I should go 37v if I'm riding 28mm and up. Others claim 28mm tire is a no-go on a rim with an ID of 25mm.

[TobinHatesYou]

Go with the 37V

[6fu]

For 30mm (or more) I would go with 37v. Otherwise I would choose a narrower rim.

28mm tire will get streched on 25mm inner width rim and you lose tire height. You might also damage the rim more easily if you hit a pothole as the tire won't give you much coverage over the rim edge.

[TobinHatesYou]

He will not lose RAM (tire height) unless his sidewalls go beyond vertical, and that's not happening with a 28mm tire on a 25mm rim.

[Jaisen]

If the rims were hookless then I'd agree that 700x28 is a no go on the 37v because of safety concern, but these are hooked rims I believe so they are fine with your desired tire choice. As far as aerodynamics, the 700x28 tire size is the perfect fit for the 37v rims. On my 25mm internal rim width wheels, my 700x28 GP5000S TR tires come out at 31mm width as measured. As long as the tires are more narrow than the rims you are good.

On rims with 21mm internals and 28mm externals that I own, which are equivalent to the Aeolus 37 you mentioned, like my second pair of Ultegra wheels, the same tires came out to 29.5mm, exceeding the external rim width and therefore costing an aerodynamic penalty (yes it is small but it illustrates the 700x28 tire is suboptimal on those rims), so the narrower rims are better suited for a 700x25 tire.

So all in all I agree with Tobin, 37v all day. They are a more modern all road design. Who wants to run 700x25mm tires these days?

[clarkywils]

Go for 37v.

[BikeEatSleepRepeat]

...Who wants to run 700x25mm tires these days?

Lots of folks for various reasons/rims.

I still see a fair number of 23's in the wild, and even a few guys with nice old school set ups and skinny 19's... But, I get it, no thanks.

At large participation events, in my experience so-called 25's are the norm today with easily 60% or more of riders using them and mostly 28's or 23 rounding out the rest.

I say so-called, because as we know the most popular "25" labeled tire today is really a 27, essentially. Same for the Michelin Power Cup.

On my Bontrager RSl 51's (hooked, 23 internal) I'm running "25" Michelin Power Cup clinchers. They tape out to just under 29 on the rims which is perfectly aero and quite comfy even approaching higher pressures. The labeled 28 Michelin's give a bit of the light bulb effect on this rim, are heavier and about the same ride quality.

[Jaisen]

...Who wants to run 700x25mm tires these days?

Lots of folks for various reasons/rims.

I still see a fair number of 23's in the wild, and even a few guys with nice old school set ups and skinny 19's... But, I get it, no thanks.

At large participation events, in my experience so-called 25's are the norm today with easily 60% or more of riders using them and mostly 28's or 23 rounding out the rest.

I say so-called, because as we know the most popular "25" labeled tire today is really a 27, essentially. Same for the Michelin Power Cup.

On my Bontrager RSl 51's (hooked, 23 internal) I'm running "25" Michelin Power Cup clinchers. They tape out to just under 29 on the rims which is perfectly aero and quite comfy even approaching higher pressures. The labeled 28 Michelin's give a bit of the light bulb effect on this rim, are heavier and about the same ride quality.

I don't have any hard data to corroborate my impression, but I believe the tire situation is analogous to the brake one. Sure you still see rim brakes out in the wild, and there is a voiceful community of people who claim rims brakes are the peak of bike performance, however, when you look at what people are actually buying if given the option to get new equipment, they choose discs the overwhelming majority of the time.

The same I believe is true with tires. If you are on older equipment, you will buy what fits your current bike, be that 23's or 25's. But if given the choice of a new bike and new wheels, people don't want to run/optimize around 25s, they want to go with the latest trend of wider tires. 28's are currently the favored size, but I imagine it won't be long and the size creep will continue. 30's and 32's will become increasingly popular even on pure race bikes. The same is true for the internal rim of widths. Anything less than 20 is old and outdated. 21mm is the current most popular size but the avant-Garde is already on 23mm and 25mm.

[BikeEatSleepRepeat]

...Who wants to run 700x25mm tires these days?

Lots of folks for various reasons/rims.

I still see a fair number of 23's in the wild, and even a few guys with nice old school set ups and skinny 19's... But, I get it, no thanks.

At large participation events, in my experience so-called 25's are the norm today with easily 60% or more of riders using them and mostly 28's or 23 rounding out the rest.

I say so-called, because as we know the most popular "25" labeled tire today is really a 27, essentially. Same for the Michelin Power Cup.

On my Bontrager RSl 51's (hooked, 23 internal) I'm running "25" Michelin Power Cup clinchers. They tape out to just under 29 on the rims which is perfectly aero and quite comfy even approaching higher pressures. The labeled 28 Michelin's give a bit of the light bulb effect on this rim, are heavier and about the same ride quality.

I don't have any hard data to corroborate my impression, but I believe the tire situation is analogous to the brake one. Sure you still see rim brakes out in the wild, and there is a voiceful community of people who claim rims brakes are the peak of bike performance, however, when you look at what people are actually buying if given the option to get new equipment, they choose discs the overwhelming majority of the time.

The same I believe is true with tires. If you are on older equipment, you will buy what fits your current bike, be that 23's or 25's. But if given the choice of a new bike and new wheels, people don't want to run/optimize around 25s, they want to go with the latest trend of wider tires. 28's are currently the favored size, but I imagine it won't be long and the size creep will continue. 30's and 32's will become increasingly popular even on pure race bikes. The same is true for the internal rim of widths. Anything less than 20 is old and outdated. 21mm is the current most popular size but the avant-Garde is already on 23mm and 25mm.

Interesting discussion, and I agree with much of what you are saying.

Among the hardcore roadies I ride with, it's a good mix right now with most of us running 25-really-27 tires or the 28-really-30's.

It's mostly a tech and performance savvy crowd, and interestingly the super high level engineer among us refuses to give up his rim brakes. He runs the super light EE ones, yet deep and heavy aero rims. Dude is a beast. Alternately, he was the very first to convert to Di2 among us, years ago.

I do know of two guys who are running 32's on our road training rides, and both converted after getting into gravel riding and really wide tires. Both fast and strong as ever and telling the rest of us we are behind the times.

Tubeless is not the most common road set up here. Many tried it, and switched back (myself included).

Several guys using disc brakes complain constantly and lament the lack of rim options available today.

But anyway, the trend in tires and rims is wider, no doubt about that.

[Jaisen]

...Who wants to run 700x25mm tires these days?

Lots of folks for various reasons/rims.

I still see a fair number of 23's in the wild, and even a few guys with nice old school set ups and skinny 19's... But, I get it, no thanks.

At large participation events, in my experience so-called 25's are the norm today with easily 60% or more of riders using them and mostly 28's or 23 rounding out the rest.

I say so-called, because as we know the most popular "25" labeled tire today is really a 27, essentially. Same for the Michelin Power Cup.

On my Bontrager RSl 51's (hooked, 23 internal) I'm running "25" Michelin Power Cup clinchers. They tape out to just under 29 on the rims which is perfectly aero and quite comfy even approaching higher pressures. The labeled 28 Michelin's give a bit of the light bulb effect on this rim, are heavier and about the same ride quality.

I don't have any hard data to corroborate my impression, but I believe the tire situation is analogous to the brake one. Sure you still see rim brakes out in the wild, and there is a voiceful community of people who claim rims brakes are the peak of bike performance, however, when you look at what people are actually buying if given the option to get new equipment, they choose discs the overwhelming majority of the time.

The same I believe is true with tires. If you are on older equipment, you will buy what fits your current bike, be that 23's or 25's. But if given the choice of a new bike and new wheels, people don't want to run/optimize around 25s, they want to go with the latest trend of wider tires. 28's are currently the favored size, but I imagine it won't be long and the size creep will continue. 30's and 32's will become increasingly popular even on pure race bikes. The same is true for the internal rim of widths. Anything less than 20 is old and outdated. 21mm is the current most popular size but the avant-Garde is already on 23mm and 25mm.

Interesting discussion, and I agree with much of what you are saying.

Among the hardcore roadies I ride with, it's a good mix right now with most of us running 25-really-27 tires or the 28-really-30's.

It's mostly a tech and performance savvy crowd, and interestingly the super high level engineer among us refuses to give up his rim brakes. He runs the super light EE ones, yet deep and heavy aero rims. Dude is a beast. Alternately, he was the very first to convert to Di2 among us, years ago.

I do know of two guys who are running 32's on our road training rides, and both converted after getting into gravel riding and really wide tires. Both fast and strong as ever and telling the rest of us we are behind the times.

Tubeless is not the most common road set up here. Many tried it, and switched back (myself included).

Several guys using disc brakes complain constantly and lament the lack of rim options available today.

But anyway, the trend in tires and rims is wider, no doubt about that.

I ran 28's for a year, and next outdoor season I will be on 30's. I would have went with 32's but the tires of my choice had better tread width/casing ratio in the 30's, and actually the tread width on the 30's was the same as the 32's. But as far as I can tell in general wider tires or similarly wider internal rim widths share the same pros/cons:

Pros:
More grip (due to better contact patch)= more confident cornering and braking, especially on fast descents
Equal if not marginally better rolling resistance
Lower tire pressures which translates to more comfort

Cons:
Small weight penalty
Slightly less aerodynamic

For my part, I sit in the draft most of the time other than during a few sprints, so the small aerodynamic penalty isn't worth sacrificing comfort and grip I will enjoy over 95% of the time (which means I will feel fresher for those sprints). As for the weight I don't think anyone will honestly be able to feel the 50g penalty and you could easily drop that weight elsewhere on the bike. I might go back to 28's but I am never going back down to 25's.

[MasterBean]

28 on the 37. OMG your tyre is wider than the rim! Shut the front door! You're on an Endurance bike with shallow wheels. The tyre and rim combo is being done to death and people are overly obsessed by it.

Sent from my COL-L29 using Tapatalk

[TobinHatesYou]

28 on the 37. OMG your tyre is wider than the rim! Shut the front door! You're on an Endurance bike with shallow wheels. The tyre and rim combo is being done to death and people are overly obsessed by it.

Sent from my COL-L29 using Tapatalk

Flip the argument around. Why would a person riding 28s and 30s choose the 21/28mm 1325g wheelset over the 25/31mm 1355g wheelset? The 37V will be faster, more comfortable and more confident in corners in pretty much all practical scenarios.

I bought 37s instead of 37Vs and I regret it.

[alanyu]

...Who wants to run 700x25mm tires these days?

Lots of folks for various reasons/rims.

I still see a fair number of 23's in the wild, and even a few guys with nice old school set ups and skinny 19's... But, I get it, no thanks.

At large participation events, in my experience so-called 25's are the norm today with easily 60% or more of riders using them and mostly 28's or 23 rounding out the rest.

I say so-called, because as we know the most popular "25" labeled tire today is really a 27, essentially. Same for the Michelin Power Cup.

On my Bontrager RSl 51's (hooked, 23 internal) I'm running "25" Michelin Power Cup clinchers. They tape out to just under 29 on the rims which is perfectly aero and quite comfy even approaching higher pressures. The labeled 28 Michelin's give a bit of the light bulb effect on this rim, are heavier and about the same ride quality.

I don't have any hard data to corroborate my impression, but I believe the tire situation is analogous to the brake one. Sure you still see rim brakes out in the wild, and there is a voiceful community of people who claim rims brakes are the peak of bike performance, however, when you look at what people are actually buying if given the option to get new equipment, they choose discs the overwhelming majority of the time.

The same I believe is true with tires. If you are on older equipment, you will buy what fits your current bike, be that 23's or 25's. But if given the choice of a new bike and new wheels, people don't want to run/optimize around 25s, they want to go with the latest trend of wider tires. 28's are currently the favored size, but I imagine it won't be long and the size creep will continue. 30's and 32's will become increasingly popular even on pure race bikes. The same is true for the internal rim of widths. Anything less than 20 is old and outdated. 21mm is the current most popular size but the avant-Garde is already on 23mm and 25mm.

Depends a lot on road. I switched back to 25/26c (27-28 mm) from 28c (30-31 mm) on CH roads.

[Matte86]

Besides the conditions of the roads each of us is riding which influence a lot on tyre choice, imho as long as nominal width of most tyres is different from their WAM —> bigger as a nominal number isn’t quite useful
For example 26c Turbo Cottons on a 21IW in reality are 28s, a 5000 TT 25c on a 21IW are almost 28… so yes I’m running 28s
If I’d go the 28/30 route, those would be 30/32 at least depending on tyres..
regarding pros riding 28 and above, we shouldn’t forget that sponsored athletes with hookless rims don’t have many choices
Ie Pogacar on 25IW Enve rims cannot run a 25c and for us consumer even a 28 isn’t a super advisable choice

[TobinHatesYou]

Besides the conditions of the roads each of us is riding which influence a lot on tyre choice, imho as long as nominal width of most tyres is different from their WAM —> bigger as a nominal number isn’t quite useful
For example 26c Turbo Cottons on a 21IW in reality are 28s, a 5000 TT 25c on a 21IW are almost 28… so yes I’m running 28s
If I’d go the 28/30 route, those would be 30/32 at least depending on tyres..
regarding pros riding 28 and above, we shouldn’t forget that sponsored athletes with hookless rims don’t have many choices
Ie Pogacar on 25IW Enve rims cannot run a 25c and for us consumer even a 28 isn’t a super advisable choice

The only teams on hookless rims are UAE, Movistar and Jayco.

I race most of my road season on 31-32mm WAM tires and have been known to podium. I do whip out my 25mm GP5K TTs on 19mm/28mm ENVE SES 5.6s for a couple of races on really smooth pavement, but yes, for most races I am definitely going to be faster and less likely to DNF on wider tires.