Craft Racing wheels - carbon spokes 1180g

[Blind1967]

Ok so sounds like the 105% rule doesn't help with my decision.
Is there a winner based on running 28 tyres?

[toxin]

It depends on the rim profile, but 105% rule is mostly outdated, it was thought up at a time when tyres were 20mm or narrower. It's good enough to not wreck your aerodynamics, but usually even narrower is ideal. Width does matter at the rear wheel, not at the seat tube cause the airflow there is *f##k* in all kinds of ways, but at the rear of the wheel where the tyre is the trailing edge and it bulging out will create all kinds of mess

We have acually started moving back to torroidal rims and they usually reccomend a tyre narrower than 105, though these crws aren't like that.

[TwiggyForest]

I have a pair of 5060, and yes the front wheel does suffer from crosswind instability at times. I'm running 28c GP5000s on both the front/rear wheel.
Do you suggest running a 30c up front instead? Would that help with stability at higher speeds?
[/quote]

Like-for-like the front wheel will feel less stable than another wheel just because of the lack of weight. You have a lot less of a gyroscopic effect with less mass rotating around (especially the rim.)
[/quote]

I received my order ofer 50/60's last week. Did my first 100k, windy, ride yesterday in Belgium. The reply from Joe is my feeling aswel, the low weight does sometimes feel as a little bit less stable in hard crosswinds, but nothing not manageable. I rode the zipp 404's before and the feel on the front wheel is just a littble it extra.

I run GP5000 30mm front and 32mm back. Both come out at 32.5mm The front is perfectly alligned with the rim and I assume therefore that the aero losses are minimal. Good thing for me on the Belgian roads is the comfort gains, wider tires on lower pressure is just superb.
The wheels feel snappy and just keep going. Dropped 300g on the zipp 404's.

As of finish and issue's mentioned on the pages before, I didn't see/feel any. Wheels are superb, worth the money.



Thanks Joe for the socks!
[/quote]

That's a great looking bike, what does it weigh as built there?

[Agent041]

How much benefit does following 105% rule actually bring? Are we talking 1watt, 3watt, 5watt,... savings compared to lets say tyre bigger than rim for 5%?

Or in other words. Is it better to run 50mm deep rims with slightly larger diameter tyres than rim, or is it better to run 40mm rims, but to follow 105% rule? Which is better in watts savings?

[JeroenB]

I have a pair of 5060, and yes the front wheel does suffer from crosswind instability at times. I'm running 28c GP5000s on both the front/rear wheel.
Do you suggest running a 30c up front instead? Would that help with stability at higher speeds?

Like-for-like the front wheel will feel less stable than another wheel just because of the lack of weight. You have a lot less of a gyroscopic effect with less mass rotating around (especially the rim.)
[/quote]

I received my order ofer 50/60's last week. Did my first 100k, windy, ride yesterday in Belgium. The reply from Joe is my feeling aswel, the low weight does sometimes feel as a little bit less stable in hard crosswinds, but nothing not manageable. I rode the zipp 404's before and the feel on the front wheel is just a littble it extra.

I run GP5000 30mm front and 32mm back. Both come out at 32.5mm The front is perfectly alligned with the rim and I assume therefore that the aero losses are minimal. Good thing for me on the Belgian roads is the comfort gains, wider tires on lower pressure is just superb.
The wheels feel snappy and just keep going. Dropped 300g on the zipp 404's.

As of finish and issue's mentioned on the pages before, I didn't see/feel any. Wheels are superb, worth the money.



Thanks Joe for the socks!
[/quote]

That's a great looking bike, what does it weigh as built there?
[/quote]

Thx! 7.6kg with cages, mounts and pedals.

[toxin]

How much benefit does following 105% rule actually bring? Are we talking 1watt, 3watt, 5watt,... savings compared to lets say tyre bigger than rim for 5%?

Or in other words. Is it better to run 50mm deep rims with slightly larger diameter tyres than rim, or is it better to run 40mm rims, but to follow 105% rule? Which is better in watts savings?

Very case dependent, impossible to make a generalisation without talking out your ass.

Better a slightly shallower rim with a proper tyre (up to a point at least)

[Agent041]

How much benefit does following 105% rule actually bring? Are we talking 1watt, 3watt, 5watt,... savings compared to lets say tyre bigger than rim for 5%?

Or in other words. Is it better to run 50mm deep rims with slightly larger diameter tyres than rim, or is it better to run 40mm rims, but to follow 105% rule? Which is better in watts savings?

Very case dependent, impossible to make a generalisation without talking out your ass.

Better a slightly shallower rim with a proper tyre (up to a point at least)

Have ordered Farsport carbon spoke 40mm, 24int./30ext (31,5mm widest). And with 28c tyres, should come around 30,5mm. These will be replacing Newman Streem 50. So 50mm deep 18int./26ext. With 28c (27,5mm) the differance in watt savings will probably be minimal. But with shallower rims, they will be better with cross wind stability and better accelerations on punchy climbs

[Blind1967]

Pulled the trigger on 5060 so I'll update when I get them/ride them

[lemeneid]

How much benefit does following 105% rule actually bring? Are we talking 1watt, 3watt, 5watt,... savings compared to lets say tyre bigger than rim for 5%?

Or in other words. Is it better to run 50mm deep rims with slightly larger diameter tyres than rim, or is it better to run 40mm rims, but to follow 105% rule? Which is better in watts savings?

Don't take this as gospel but the results do show there isn't a difference. And this is for only one source and one brand only.

https://blog.flocycling.com/aero-wheels ... ou-slower/

[Agent041]

How much benefit does following 105% rule actually bring? Are we talking 1watt, 3watt, 5watt,... savings compared to lets say tyre bigger than rim for 5%?

Or in other words. Is it better to run 50mm deep rims with slightly larger diameter tyres than rim, or is it better to run 40mm rims, but to follow 105% rule? Which is better in watts savings?

Don't take this as gospel but the results do show there isn't a difference. And this is for only one source and one brand only.

https://blog.flocycling.com/aero-wheels ... ou-slower/

Naturally I did not opt for 24/30 with 28c (30,5mm) version because of aero. Comfort and cornering on wider tyres on descents come first for me

[scapewalker]

Looks like the 65/75 are already for sale on Pandapodium.
Definitely on my short list once the sl8 finally arrives.

[toxin]

Not bad, close to my ideal rim profiles

[da123]

Update for those looking forward to the CS6575

Did an ABAB test today against the CS5060 wheels (which are obviously already very rapid wheels.)

At 40kph they save you 5 watts. The test was pretty accurate looking at the deviation between the two A and two B results.

Tested with GiBLI aero sensor... more updates on that in an upcoming video...

Hi Joe. Any plans to also test the 4045 and 5055 wheelsets to get a comprehensive comparison of the watt savings across the range?

[ChinaCycling]

Update for those looking forward to the CS6575

Did an ABAB test today against the CS5060 wheels (which are obviously already very rapid wheels.)

At 40kph they save you 5 watts. The test was pretty accurate looking at the deviation between the two A and two B results.

Tested with GiBLI aero sensor... more updates on that in an upcoming video...

Hi Joe. Any plans to also test the 4045 and 5055 wheelsets to get a comprehensive comparison of the watt savings across the range?

My goal is to aero test every set of wheel we sell.. but obviously its a massive time undertaking. I may actually have to hire someone just to ride bikes and collect aero data all day. Sounds like a dream job for some.

[Nickldn]

I've had a chance to test the front wheel in the 5060 wheelset, against a Bora WTO. The front wheel has been put on my ZX1 temporarily while I wait for my SL8 frame to arrive. The back wheel can't be put on as I don't have the Campy freehub body required. A Bora WTO 45 remains on the back.

So this is a pretty unique test, CRW 50 with Conti GP5000S TR 28mm vs Bora WTO 45 with GP5000S TR 25mm. No other components swapped.

First impressions are very positive. The CRW wheel is very light and accelerates well. Despite the wider tyre it is faster than the WTO, at least anecdotally. I have managed to get a load of joint PB's and second best times in segments I have ridden hundreds of times in the past under all conditions. This is really great so early in the season on a bike which is not as quick for PBs as my Propel. At the same time the wheel is comfortable, I have tried 65 and 70 psi, both pressures are good for the crap roads in Surrey.

Cross wind stability is on a par with the WTO 45, despite the wheel being lighter and 5mm deeper I have not noticed it being more twitchy when it's windy.

Very happy so far, can't wait to start using the back wheel too.