Tubeless without sealant?

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RustyCage
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:15 pm

by RustyCage

Has anyone tried running a tubeless tire with sealant initially (few weeks), then sucking out the remainder through the valve stem and running them "dry". Knowing that if you flat you have to pop in a tube. With TPU tubes so light, it's almost lighter to run a TPU spare than sealant anyways! And you wouldn't have to fuss with sealant after the setup. The advantage being that pinch flats go way down (compared to tubes) and lowered weight. The risk being that you loose the self-sealing properties.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12456
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

I would only do this if I was going for a PR on a climb. 2x30mL of sealant in your tires is going to keep you from flatting in the middle of a race or no-wait group ride at virtually zero cost in efficiency. With Vittoria Air Liners, I don’t even bother carrying tubes except on rides over the mountains into the boonies.
Last edited by TobinHatesYou on Sat Jun 10, 2023 5:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

by Weenie


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Pyotrump
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:01 pm

by Pyotrump

I did this on my ex's bike. She may not know this till she experiences pucture. It was specialized turbo rapid aur 30c. No problem.





MikeD
Posts: 1000
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:55 pm

by MikeD

Won't work. I've had tires go flat just because the sealant dried up.

Singular
Posts: 537
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:59 am

by Singular

It's very asymmetric - very little to win, very much to lose. It is in addition also amplified on the kind of tires (light, thin, supple, fast) that would be relevant to do it on, that are in themselves not always very puncture-proof, sturdy and airtight. Nothing is slower than a flat, y'know...

Jaisen
Posts: 406
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:01 am

by Jaisen

RustyCage wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 8:23 pm
Has anyone tried running a tubeless tire with sealant initially (few weeks), then sucking out the remainder through the valve stem and running them "dry". Knowing that if you flat you have to pop in a tube. With TPU tubes so light, it's almost lighter to run a TPU spare than sealant anyways! And you wouldn't have to fuss with sealant after the setup. The advantage being that pinch flats go way down (compared to tubes) and lowered weight. The risk being that you loose the self-sealing properties.
Similar to Tobin, and given I rarely ever flat, I opted to install Vittoria Airliners and put in 20ml of sealant. I won't be adding more sealant when it dries out, nor will I drain it as you suggest (20ml per wheel has negligeable weight). I won't bother carrying tubes either, just my multitool. The Airliners should be enough to get me home and worst case I'll just call an Uber, but I doubt it comes to that.

One thing to note, the airliners can be hard to install if you don't use the proper technique. I couldn't get them on for the life of me with my GP 5000s TRs until I finally understood how to use the provided clips to ensure the tire beads staid in the center channel. After figuring the clips out the tires went on fairly easily and inflated with the beads setting in properly with a standard pump. No need for special pressurized inflators or compressors.

user83843
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:14 pm
Location: Idaho

by user83843

I'd just run tpus for less anxiety re: what could go wrong here

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12456
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Odd, I just run... sealant.

extrusionedwin
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2021 3:25 am

by extrusionedwin

I'm running with cadex tyre without sealant and works perfect, but you need to pump everyday, I already race over 5000km without any problem.
I only recommend cadex tyre because fits perfect without any leaks. If you're using GP 5000 STR, it don't work, only in gavia race or cadex tyres works well

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12456
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Aerocoach/Xav measured a pair of Cadex Race tires at 25W slower than GP5K TT TRs at 45km/h. In other words, if I used Cadex tires in a crit, I’d have to put out 250W just to tailgun rather than 225W.

I guess I don’t see the point in running a very slow tire without sealant. It’s the worst of all worlds since you get a non-supple, slow tire and no ability to seal a puncture. You’re better off with GP5K Tt TRs + sealant or GP5K clinchers + TPU or latex inner tubes.

RustyCage
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:15 pm

by RustyCage

Jaisen wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2023 6:54 pm
RustyCage wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 8:23 pm
Has anyone tried running a tubeless tire with sealant initially (few weeks), then sucking out the remainder through the valve stem and running them "dry". Knowing that if you flat you have to pop in a tube. With TPU tubes so light, it's almost lighter to run a TPU spare than sealant anyways! And you wouldn't have to fuss with sealant after the setup. The advantage being that pinch flats go way down (compared to tubes) and lowered weight. The risk being that you loose the self-sealing properties.
Similar to Tobin, and given I rarely ever flat, I opted to install Vittoria Airliners and put in 20ml of sealant. I won't be adding more sealant when it dries out, nor will I drain it as you suggest (20ml per wheel has negligeable weight). I won't bother carrying tubes either, just my multitool. The Airliners should be enough to get me home and worst case I'll just call an Uber, but I doubt it comes to that.
Keep us posted on this setup! Yeah, once you get 20mL of sealant mixed in with the foam insert, I don't think you could easily get it back out!!

You and Tobin make a good point about the foam liners. Why bother with CO2/pumps/spare tubes if the liners are already there, total weight might be lower for training rides, and the safety factors are better for racing. Maybe running dry tubeless setups are best for uphill TTs and show bikes.

Jaisen
Posts: 406
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:01 am

by Jaisen

RustyCage wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2023 7:52 pm
Jaisen wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2023 6:54 pm
RustyCage wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 8:23 pm
Has anyone tried running a tubeless tire with sealant initially (few weeks), then sucking out the remainder through the valve stem and running them "dry". Knowing that if you flat you have to pop in a tube. With TPU tubes so light, it's almost lighter to run a TPU spare than sealant anyways! And you wouldn't have to fuss with sealant after the setup. The advantage being that pinch flats go way down (compared to tubes) and lowered weight. The risk being that you loose the self-sealing properties.
Similar to Tobin, and given I rarely ever flat, I opted to install Vittoria Airliners and put in 20ml of sealant. I won't be adding more sealant when it dries out, nor will I drain it as you suggest (20ml per wheel has negligeable weight). I won't bother carrying tubes either, just my multitool. The Airliners should be enough to get me home and worst case I'll just call an Uber, but I doubt it comes to that.
Keep us posted on this setup! Yeah, once you get 20mL of sealant mixed in with the foam insert, I don't think you could easily get it back out!!

You and Tobin make a good point about the foam liners. Why bother with CO2/pumps/spare tubes if the liners are already there, total weight might be lower for training rides, and the safety factors are better for racing. Maybe running dry tubeless setups are best for uphill TTs and show bikes.
I've only done about 1k so far, but no issues to report. If I run into an issue where I regret my choice I'll post a follow up, otherwise it'll be safe to assume it just works for me.

AJS914
Posts: 5397
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Is 20ml even enough to fully coat the inside of a tire? My guess is that 20ml would also dry out really fast. I think the hot ticket would be multiple doses of 20ml. Personally, I've noticed that the more top up / drying cycles I get on sealant the more flat resistance I achieve.

jfranci3
Posts: 1572
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:21 pm

by jfranci3

I've thought about this. Just carry the sealant and put it in when you have the flat. It'd only work with a TL tire, not a TLR. So the old GP5k TL yes, TR s no. You'd probably also need to start with a new tire. In any case, you're better off putting a light load in there and letting it dry out.

by Weenie


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pushpush
Posts: 291
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:10 am

by pushpush

I overfill on sealant with new tires, run them for a week or so, then remove most of the sealant. To be clear, I am still running sealant, just a minimal amount of it. This provides time to seal the inside of the tire, fill any leaky pores/spots that might exist and glue the tire to the wheel. After that is done, it requires very little sealant to handle the average puncture. The physics of accelerating the wheel with a nominal amount of fluid inside it doesnt carry the same penalty that the same weight fixed to the wheel would and I would rather carry the sealant inside the wheel than sealant or tubes in my pocket or jersey. I see very little downside.

Oh yeah.... punctures that fix themselves without ever stopping are priceless.

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