Tyres for riding up mountains

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bobinski
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:06 pm

by bobinski

Hi,
I have a raid pryenees in june and have been thinking about and would welcome some advice on tyres. I currently run Hunt carbon aero 30's with a 21 internal and 27mm external. I ran Corsa's in the Alps last year but whilst a truly lovely ride the side wall cut up and i am a bit wary about replacing and having the same issue. So, been thinking GP5000 s tr but not sure about sising. BRR seems to suggest the 32 are quicker, and ceratinly more comfortable, than the smaller sises. Puncture resistance on what at times will be less than perfect road surfaces is good. So, ignoring the slight weight differnces, 32mm, even going up mountains for an hour plus, seems the preferable option? It seems counter intuitive. Any good reason not to run a 32?
Cheers

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Mocs123
Posts: 826
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by Mocs123

I think if you look at BRR with adjusted tire pressures, rolling resistance between sizes is pretty much the same. I don't think anyone's going to run 32's at 100psi for example. 32's will be slightly heavier and will be too wide to get any aero bennifit from your 27mm wide wheels, but as you mention will be more comfortable and that may be the biggest advantage for us riders not going for a podium.

GP5000S-TR's are probably the most highly rated tire that's tough enough for everyday use, so it would probably be my go - well actually for me the regular GP5000 since I went back to tubes, but if I were going back to tubeless, the S-TR would be my choice.
2015 Wilier Zero.7 Rim - 6.37kg
2020 Trek Emonda SLR-7 Disc - 6.86kg
2023 Specialized SL7 - 7.18kg

Nickldn
Posts: 1865
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

I had very good results from 25mm GP5000S TR in Majorca on 45mm WTOs. But roads in Pyrenees are rougher and maybe 28mm width is a better compromise between comfort and aero. The new GP5000AS TR may also be a good choice, but noticeably heavier.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg

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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

Conti TR is tough to beat, have em on my main summer ride - very pleased. 32mm is not necessary. 30 or 28 should be fine.

The one caveat I'd offer is that when I am in the mountains, I always ride Vittoria's for the superior wet traction. If it rains, the Pyrenees can be slippery like few other places. Some of the chipseal seems to be laid with smooth pebbles as opposed to crushed gravel. Terrifying in the wet. Regardless of tires choice, if it does rain, set your tire pressure as low as you dare.

Worth noting that Conti has the AS - their new all season. Not far off the TR in terms of rolling resistance, better puncture protection, and the best news, very high wet traction score.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

bobinski
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:06 pm

by bobinski

Mr.Gib wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2023 4:11 am
Conti TR is tough to beat, have em on my main summer ride - very pleased. 32mm is not necessary. 30 or 28 should be fine.

The one caveat I'd offer is that when I am in the mountains, I always ride Vittoria's for the superior wet traction. If it rains, the Pyrenees can be slippery like few other places. Some of the chipseal seems to be laid with smooth pebbles as opposed to crushed gravel. Terrifying in the wet. Regardless of tires choice, if it does rain, set your tire pressure as low as you dare.

Worth noting that Conti has the AS - their new all season. Not far off the TR in terms of rolling resistance, better puncture protection, and the best news, very high wet traction score.
Yes, wet weather traction is a concern and the main reason i thought 32mm might be best. I could probably get away with 40-50psi. Availability is another issue. I saw the AS review. No doubt rare as hens teeth and more expensive when they do eventually arrive in the UK.

bobinski
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:06 pm

by bobinski

Sorry to drag this back but i am now thinking of the veloflex corsa evo in 25 or 28mm. Those corsa races in a 25mm were pretty comfortable in the mountains last year, and bar that strange sidewall cut i may have just left them on for the Pyrennees. The Evo's have a touch more protection but by all accounts retain that lovely ride and tenacious grip on the downs.

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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

I am starting to get more than a bit annoyed at Vittoria's various Corsa models suffering from the tread delaminating from the casing. They're fine when new, but as the tires age it's a problem. I have just binned three Corsa's that had less than 50% wear due to delamination. I could literally stick my fingernail under the edge of the tread and easily peel it away from the casing. FWIW these were all tan walls.
Might be switching to Veloflex if someone can confirm good wet road traction,
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

Mocs123
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by Mocs123

@Mr. Gibb - I'm a Conti fan, but I have tried a pair of Vittoria's before and had similar issues.....but the way I understand the new vulcanized construction method Vittoria is using on these tires, I don't think that will be a problem. Or at least, it's not supposed to be.
2015 Wilier Zero.7 Rim - 6.37kg
2020 Trek Emonda SLR-7 Disc - 6.86kg
2023 Specialized SL7 - 7.18kg

xav
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Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:59 pm
Location: UK

by xav

It's worth bearing in mind that a lower Crr tyre has the same effect as reducing weight on the bike. As an example:

76kg rider, 8kg bike/equipment, 10% gradient, 16kph, 400w, GP5000S TR 25mm tyres

If the rider swapped to GP5000 TT 25mm, the rolling resistance improvement is the same as dropping 320g off the bike. Added to that is the actual weight difference which would save another 90g or so, meaning if you did have a faster rolling tyre that was heavier there could well still be a net benefit. In this example swapping to the TT tyres is roughly equivalent to keeping the TR tyres but dropping >400g from the bike.

bobones
Posts: 1271
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:19 am

by bobones

Mr.Gib wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:50 pm
I am starting to get more than a bit annoyed at Vittoria's various Corsa models suffering from the tread delaminating from the casing. They're fine when new, but as the tires age it's a problem. I have just binned three Corsa's that had less than 50% wear due to delamination. I could literally stick my fingernail under the edge of the tread and easily peel it away from the casing. FWIW these were all tan walls.
Might be switching to Veloflex if someone can confirm good wet road traction,
I had this same problem with Corsa Speeds (black and grey versions) and used to glue the tread back down to keep riding them. As Mocs123 says, the new Corsa Pros have the tread vulcanized into the casing so the delamination you describe can't happen. My early impression is that the Pros are sublime tyres to ride: reminiscent of the Speeds in terms of ride feel and comfort, but much more hardy. I'd definitely recommend them over the Veloflex Corsa Evo, which have their own quirks and foibles including the capacity to absorb sealant at an alarming rate and grow black mould on the tan sidewalls.

bobinski
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:06 pm

by bobinski

xav wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:07 pm
It's worth bearing in mind that a lower Crr tyre has the same effect as reducing weight on the bike. As an example:

76kg rider, 8kg bike/equipment, 10% gradient, 16kph, 400w, GP5000S TR 25mm tyres

If the rider swapped to GP5000 TT 25mm, the rolling resistance improvement is the same as dropping 320g off the bike. Added to that is the actual weight difference which would save another 90g or so, meaning if you did have a faster rolling tyre that was heavier there could well still be a net benefit. In this example swapping to the TT tyres is roughly equivalent to keeping the TR tyres but dropping >400g from the bike.
Blimey.
I have gone with the 28's, a smidge heavier, barely any rolling resistance penalty, and on 21mm not much difference in sise but hopefully greater comfort.

xav
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:59 pm
Location: UK

by xav

bobinski wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 3:22 pm
xav wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:07 pm
It's worth bearing in mind that a lower Crr tyre has the same effect as reducing weight on the bike. As an example:

76kg rider, 8kg bike/equipment, 10% gradient, 16kph, 400w, GP5000S TR 25mm tyres

If the rider swapped to GP5000 TT 25mm, the rolling resistance improvement is the same as dropping 320g off the bike. Added to that is the actual weight difference which would save another 90g or so, meaning if you did have a faster rolling tyre that was heavier there could well still be a net benefit. In this example swapping to the TT tyres is roughly equivalent to keeping the TR tyres but dropping >400g from the bike.
Blimey.
I have gone with the 28's, a smidge heavier, barely any rolling resistance penalty, and on 21mm not much difference in sise but hopefully greater comfort.
I think that's a nice choice, certainly more confidence inspiring when descending too 8)

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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

bobones wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:49 pm
Mr.Gib wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:50 pm
I am starting to get more than a bit annoyed at Vittoria's various Corsa models suffering from the tread delaminating from the casing. They're fine when new, but as the tires age it's a problem. I have just binned three Corsa's that had less than 50% wear due to delamination. I could literally stick my fingernail under the edge of the tread and easily peel it away from the casing. FWIW these were all tan walls.
Might be switching to Veloflex if someone can confirm good wet road traction,
...As Mocs123 says, the new Corsa Pros have the tread vulcanized into the casing so the delamination you describe can't happen. My early impression is that the Pros are sublime tyres to ride: reminiscent of the Speeds in terms of ride feel and comfort, but much more hardy. I'd definitely recommend them over the Veloflex Corsa Evo, which have their own quirks and foibles including the capacity to absorb sealant at an alarming rate and grow black mould on the tan sidewalls.
Yes, aware of all this but for tubeless I am happy with my GP5000TR which I use at home. I prefer clinchers for traveling - have to be able to deal with worst case scenario in the middle of nowhere. And I do worry about the narrow tread of the Corsa Pro with so much descending. It's a lot of time with the bike leaned over. Maybe Corsa Next.
bobones wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:49 pm
I had this same problem with Corsa Speeds (black and grey versions) and used to glue the tread back down to keep riding them.
Just super glue?
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

bobones
Posts: 1271
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:19 am

by bobones

Mr.Gib wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:21 pm
bobones wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:49 pm
I had this same problem with Corsa Speeds (black and grey versions) and used to glue the tread back down to keep riding them.
Just super glue?
I tried several different types of glue and superglue didn't work that well IIRC. To be honest, I can't actually remember what worked best (might have been Evostick), but I don't think I was ever that happy with the results of any of them.

bobinski
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:06 pm

by bobinski

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A quick update. Just completed raid pyrennees within the 100 hours. A total of 738 km , rolling time of 34.32 hrs and 12, 242m of climbing. Rode my Vielo V+1 1x with a 42 and 10-44 at the back. The veloflex corsa evo in 28,held up fine. Tubeless, no obvious punctures. A few people on tubes punctured. Luck of the drawer perhaps. Tyres were lovely, varied psi from 65 down to 45 ( i weigh 74 kilos and bike weight of 7.5 kilos) depending on the weather. We had a constant threat of rain and our ascents of the Aubisgue and Tormalet and then the Gaux were mired in mist and cloud. Lowered the psi on advice here to get that grip on the descents. The tyres show very little wear which is a pleasant surprise. I may have lost a few watts with tyre choice but comfort and the grip on the desents were much more important.

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