Aero roadwheels (firecrest 404's) with 30km/h

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rolfo
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:15 pm
Location: Netherlands

by rolfo

Dear fellow bikers,

I'm in the market for an aditional wheelset next to my Zipp 303 Firecrest (40mm high, with 28mm Contis TR), which ride super in my Aethos. At first I thought to buy another Zipp 303 FC wheelset, as the second wheelset will be for a Crux, so they are easy exchangeable. But now I've seen the Firecrest 404's (58mm high).

I'm far from a pro and weigh 70kg. I mostly ride solo here in the flatlands, average speed about 30 Km/h.

Do such wheels make any sense? Or one will only profit from the aero gains in a group ride and with higher speeds?
I'm already sure I won't be riding the 404's in the mountains as I'm not a great descender and already feel wind with the 40mm 303's.

Thanks for your advice!

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Nohands83
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:41 am
Location: Leeds, UK

by Nohands83

The 404 will be faster but not very much, maybe 2-3 watts in the real world.
I found the 303 caught the wind more than I liked as well.
I brought a set of Bontrager RSL51 instead and they're so much better in the wind (even though they're deeper), I'd recommend looking at those or a set of the RSL37.

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rolfo
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:15 pm
Location: Netherlands

by rolfo

Nohands83 wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:39 pm
The 404 will be faster but not very much, maybe 2-3 watts in the real world.
That is indeed not noticable for me. One would hope for more, or get the feeling of going fast.
With that marginal gain it will probably won't weigh against handling with the crosswinds.

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LouisN
Posts: 3510
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:44 am
Location: Canada

by LouisN

I suggest you ask in a triathlon forum, where you will get lots of comments that recommend the use of aero material at any speed. To exlain that, their line of thinking is towards, the slowest you're riding, then you will benefit this gain for a longer period :mrgreen: ...

"Wheels to ...benefit from aero gains in a group ride"... :noidea: the benefit is when you ride solo or only when pulling at the front.

Louis :)

VeloCris
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:28 am

by VeloCris

Nohands83 wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:39 pm
The 404 will be faster but not very much, maybe 2-3 watts in the real world.
I found the 303 caught the wind more than I liked as well.
I brought a set of Bontrager RSL51 instead and they're so much better in the wind (even though they're deeper), I'd recommend looking at those or a set of the RSL37.
rsl37s are some of my fav wheels used. while everyone was blowing around on this windy ride i was stable and able to keep straight and pass people heaver than me downhill. really recomend

AJS914
Posts: 5397
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

rolfo wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:11 pm
I'm in the market for an aditional wheelset next to my Zipp 303 Firecrest (40mm high, with 28mm Contis TR), which ride super in my Aethos. At first I thought to buy another Zipp 303 FC wheelset, as the second wheelset will be for a Crux, so they are easy exchangeable. But now I've seen the Firecrest 404's (58mm high).

I'm far from a pro and weigh 70kg. I mostly ride solo here in the flatlands, average speed about 30 Km/h.

Seriously, $2000 wheelsets make no sense for solo training rides. But maybe you like the way they look? Maybe you can afford them just fine? Then just get what you like. If money is an issue, a $350 set of wheels will roll just fine and you can buy 5.7 sets for the price of one set of Zipps.

djemz
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:45 am

by djemz

AJS914 wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:31 am
rolfo wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:11 pm
I'm in the market for an aditional wheelset next to my Zipp 303 Firecrest (40mm high, with 28mm Contis TR), which ride super in my Aethos. At first I thought to buy another Zipp 303 FC wheelset, as the second wheelset will be for a Crux, so they are easy exchangeable. But now I've seen the Firecrest 404's (58mm high).

I'm far from a pro and weigh 70kg. I mostly ride solo here in the flatlands, average speed about 30 Km/h.

Seriously, $2000 wheelsets make no sense for solo training rides. But maybe you like the way they look? Maybe you can afford them just fine? Then just get what you like. If money is an issue, a $350 set of wheels will roll just fine and you can buy 5.7 sets for the price of one set of Zipps.
I'm pretty sure that you don't have experience with the difference. I come from a 50mm Chinese carbon wheelset to a dt swiss 62mm and the difference is huge.

LuigiG
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2022 10:11 pm

by LuigiG

DELETED
Last edited by LuigiG on Sun Mar 24, 2024 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AJS914
Posts: 5397
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

djemz wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 1:52 pm
I'm pretty sure that you don't have experience with the difference. I come from a 50mm Chinese carbon wheelset to a dt swiss 62mm and the difference is huge.
You have no idea what I've experienced. I wasn't thinking that he buy cheap, no name chinese carbon wheels. I was actually thinking along the lines of a $350 set of Zonda wheels, the Fulcrum equivalent, or similar.

Back to the original question. Nobody needs a $2000 set of wheels for solo training rides. Nobody needs aero wheels unless they need to go faster. Why does one need to go 1-2mph faster on solo rides?

But we all love parts and bike bling. So my suggestion was to buy the $2000 wheels if he really loved the look and if he could afford them without having to put them on credit or balance his bank account ahead of time.

MilesG813
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu May 19, 2022 7:17 pm

by MilesG813

AJS914 wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:02 pm
djemz wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 1:52 pm
I'm pretty sure that you don't have experience with the difference. I come from a 50mm Chinese carbon wheelset to a dt swiss 62mm and the difference is huge.
You have no idea what I've experienced. I wasn't thinking that he buy cheap, no name chinese carbon wheels. I was actually thinking along the lines of a $350 set of Zonda wheels, the Fulcrum equivalent, or similar.

Back to the original question. Nobody needs a $2000 set of wheels for solo training rides. Nobody needs aero wheels unless they need to go faster. Why does one need to go 1-2mph faster on solo rides?

But we all love parts and bike bling. So my suggestion was to buy the $2000 wheels if he really loved the look and if he could afford them without having to put them on credit or balance his bank account ahead of time.
You made your recommendation now leave it alone. I do not understand what you have against expensive wheels. Your $350 Zondas are not the same as the 404s. I have PCWs because I like them and I want to go as fast as possible, is that a problem? Why do you care how he spends his money? He wants a more aerodynamic set to go with his 303s, why would he downgrade to a lesser brand? I think he should buy $3,600 wheels, does that grind your gears? OP, I came of 404s (fc) and they were nice wheels. Very stable in crosswinds for non-sinusoidal wheels and you might find yourself leaving the 303s in their bags.
2022 Specialized S-Works SL7 I Ultegra R8170 I Princeton Carbonworks 6560
2012 Cannondale CAAD 10 I 105 R5700 I Zipp 404s

AJS914
Posts: 5397
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Relax. The OP asked if they made sense. I responded. And If you recall, I said buy them if he wanted them. I only responded again because djemz quoted me and threw cheap Chinese wheels into the mix.

Why do you act like you are personally offended by my recommendation? Feel free to make your own recommendation to the OP in the thread.

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Lelandjt
Posts: 833
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:10 am

by Lelandjt

Everyone's missing an important detail here. Answerers are focused on the difference between deep & deeper rims at 30kph. OP said he "averages 30kph". On a ride that I finish with an average speed of 30kph I spend a lot of time well above that and a significant portion at the 45+kph speeds that we think of aero making a big difference. Will these wheels be different enough at those speeds that you can feel it and see a difference in your speed? Probably. Will you feel a difference in how they catch wind (comparing rims from the same brand)? Yes. Will you feel the weight difference? Probably not but it will have a small effect during climbs and accelerations.
Make your choice based on aero speed vs weight & wind stability. I also ride moderately fast and solo but I live where it can be windy and there's hills so I went with a 45/55mm tall wheelset from Hyper (very light and laterally stiff) vs their taller offering.

rolfo
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:15 pm
Location: Netherlands

by rolfo

Thanks for all the responses. Helpfull.

Indeed, there's always a possable discussion on the budget. But I love the Zipps and I find it helpfull they share the same hub, makes changing wheels much easier.
They way i summerize it: There will be a diffrence, but realy marginal.

Then there's the tyre compatibility: The 404's are advised to be ridden with 25mm tubeless tyres, not the Conti's I drive with now.
Probably go for a second 303 set.

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 6283
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

rolfo wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:11 pm
Dear fellow bikers,

I'm in the market for an aditional wheelset next to my Zipp 303 Firecrest (40mm high, with 28mm Contis TR), which ride super in my Aethos. At first I thought to buy another Zipp 303 FC wheelset, as the second wheelset will be for a Crux, so they are easy exchangeable. But now I've seen the Firecrest 404's (58mm high).

I'm far from a pro and weigh 70kg. I mostly ride solo here in the flatlands, average speed about 30 Km/h.

Do such wheels make any sense? Or one will only profit from the aero gains in a group ride and with higher speeds?
I'm already sure I won't be riding the 404's in the mountains as I'm not a great descender and already feel wind with the 40mm 303's.

Thanks for your advice!
If you buy 303, you will not say they are wind sensitive (we have lots of swirl and cross winds and rather flat here). They are very comfortable, like you ride with much fatter tires kind of plush. But not that you feel they are slow.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

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rolfo
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:15 pm
Location: Netherlands

by rolfo

Thanks, the 303FC's are indeed very comfortable ;-)

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