ENVE Refresh?

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LedZeppelin007
Posts: 747
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:46 pm

by LedZeppelin007

FlatlandClimber wrote:Yeah, 28s front and back here. The aero savings of a 25 should be pretty tiny.
For a hill climb I'd probably go 25 TT front and rear.
Thanks. I know the aero performance of the 2.3 is supposedly not great. How do you like them?

I’m very interested to see what Pogacar runs and when. Apparently he will mainly be running the 4.5 (according to Colnago) and their aero gains for the V4RS were based on the 4.5s versus “the wheel that Pogacar was generally running” (Bora WTO 45s?). Wondering if he goes 3.4 or 2.3 for the mountains in the Tour.


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FlatlandClimber
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Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

Really like the 2.3s for the mountains. Just rode them for 2 weeks in Tenerife. First trip to the high mountains after crashing in Granada, where I *f##k* up after I massive gust turned my handlebars on the descent.
This obviously hit my confidence pretty hard, and Tenerife being known for being windy af, I was a little nervous.
Saying "the 2.3s climb well" is a little pointless of a statement, imo. They are super mega light, and the modern internal width allows for wide tires to role quickly. Obviously they climb fairly well. However, most climbs in Tenerife are 5 to 6.5% average, where a more aero wheel, like the 3.4 for example, is probably faster.
The only bigger climb in Tenerife, that is so steep, that you'd only go light (Masca Climb, 10.9% for 4km), is probably the perfect playground for these. Not only is it f'in steep, it's also unsteady, so you accelerate and decelerate several times.
With that said,the climb came 90k deep into a 120k/3000m+ ride for me, so I can't really say I enjoyed it too much 😅.

Edit: I kinda forget to get back to the point I was trying to make.
I really loved riding these wheels despite them not being the scientifically fastest on most of those climbs, for the stability, even in bad, gusty winds. They are mega light and super stable in the wind (which isn't super surprising for the low profile), and that's why I think they are amazing for riding in the mountains.
Last edited by FlatlandClimber on Mon Jan 16, 2023 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg

*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7

LedZeppelin007
Posts: 747
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:46 pm

by LedZeppelin007

FlatlandClimber wrote:Really like the 2.3s for the mountains. Just rode them for 2 weeks in Tenerife. First trip to the high mountains after crashing in Granada, where I *f##k* up after I massive gust turned my handlebars on the descent.
This obviously hit my confidence pretty hard, and Tenerife being known for being windy af, I was a little nervous.
Saying "the 2.3s climb well" is a little pointless of a statement, imo. They are super mega light, and the modern internal width allows for wide tires to role quickly. Obviously they climb fairly well. However, most climbs in Tenerife are 5 to 6.5% average, where a more aero wheel, like the 3.4 for example, is probably faster.
The only bigger climb in Tenerife, that is so steep, that you'd only go light (Masca Climb, 10.9% for 4km), is probably the perfect playground for these. Not only is it f'in steep, it's also unsteady, so you accelerate and decelerate several times.
With that said,the climb came 90k deep into a 120k/3000m+ ride for me, so I can't really say I enjoyed it too much Image.
Thanks for the useful feedback. Sold the Mon Chasserals that came with my bike and was kind of regretting it. I really think the 4.5s are the ultimate wheel for me, despite me blowing one up (see above, Enve took care of me). I hate to sound like an industry shill, but I love hookless. Without it, I’d still be running 100 psi guaranteed. The 4.5s have shown me that the whole hookless system with huge tires can be really fast and comfortable. Compared with the 454s I had, the only thing the 454s had over the 4.5s was a slight benefit in stiffness and climbing. The 4.5s are more comfortable and noticeably faster on the flat, even with 29c Enve tires. I also thought that the 454s caught a little more cross wind (but were more predictable when they did, probably thanks to that sinusoidal whale thing).

Right now, I’m getting lighter and stronger which had peaked my interest in the 2.3s, so I impulsively picked some up when they were 20% off on a New Year sale. I’m looking forward to tackling a local 1 mile climb that averages 12.1%, but has extended sections of 20+%. Only climb that I do that have people passing me in cars and clapping for me, clearly thinking I’m insane. There was one point where I was doing 7kph doing 420 watts.


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tmanley
Posts: 334
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Location: San Jose, CA
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by tmanley

I'm running some 32c Vittoria Corsa Next on my 2.3's during the winter.

ccie6872
Posts: 367
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:46 pm

by ccie6872

Has anyone laced up 2.3 with 180 hubs? Curious on the weight...

FlatlandClimber
Posts: 2504
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

You could just extrapolate it from the posted custom builds. Weight of 180s compared to Extralite is a known variable.
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg

*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7

RoadDonk82
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2023 2:43 pm

by RoadDonk82

The only bigger climb in Tenerife, that is so steep, that you'd only go light (Masca Climb, 10.9% for 4km), is probably the perfect playground for these. Not only is it f'in steep, it's also unsteady, so you accelerate and decelerate several times.
With that said,the climb came 90k deep into a 120k/3000m+ ride for me, so I can't really say I enjoyed it too much 😅.
There are mulitple very steep climb on Tenerife where lighter > aero by a big margin. I will mention just a few major ones without going into side town roads which often go in to 25%-30% gradient territory:

1)Taganana beach climb: 5.52km, avg 9.5% (this one is comparable to Masca)
2)Afur climb: 6.7km, avg 8.5%
3)Villaflor - Teide climb (or more precisely from last cafe to the viewpoint): 9.44km, avg 6.8% but multiple sections close to 10% on the way.
4)El Fronton - Villaflor climb: no idea about the whole thing but last 4.16km has avg 8.6% gradient and the last 7.77km has 7.2% avg gradient
5)Climb to Teno Alto (from Palmar): 2.83km, avg 10% (good idea to do it as a warm-up before Masca :))
6)TF 455 Climb (from Punta de Teno) - 0.93km, avg 12.3%

Needles to say there is big variation around average gradient on those roads so if it's 8.5% average there will be sections of 15%+.
I know it's not a thread about Tenerife but if you are there try those, they are all beatiful and worth it :)

wickedstealthy
Posts: 454
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:16 pm

by wickedstealthy

RoadDonk82 wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 1:26 pm
The only bigger climb in Tenerife, that is so steep, that you'd only go light (Masca Climb, 10.9% for 4km), is probably the perfect playground for these. Not only is it f'in steep, it's also unsteady, so you accelerate and decelerate several times.
With that said,the climb came 90k deep into a 120k/3000m+ ride for me, so I can't really say I enjoyed it too much 😅.
There are mulitple very steep climb on Tenerife where lighter > aero by a big margin. I will mention just a few major ones without going into side town roads which often go in to 25%-30% gradient territory:

1)Taganana beach climb: 5.52km, avg 9.5% (this one is comparable to Masca)
2)Afur climb: 6.7km, avg 8.5%
3)Villaflor - Teide climb (or more precisely from last cafe to the viewpoint): 9.44km, avg 6.8% but multiple sections close to 10% on the way.
4)El Fronton - Villaflor climb: no idea about the whole thing but last 4.16km has avg 8.6% gradient and the last 7.77km has 7.2% avg gradient
5)Climb to Teno Alto (from Palmar): 2.83km, avg 10% (good idea to do it as a warm-up before Masca :))
6)TF 455 Climb (from Punta de Teno) - 0.93km, avg 12.3%

Needles to say there is big variation around average gradient on those roads so if it's 8.5% average there will be sections of 15%+.
I know it's not a thread about Tenerife but if you are there try those, they are all beatiful and worth it :)
True but was now article on bike rumours but honestly a weight different of say 200gr won't make a real difference.

But I'm really curious about the enve 4.5. Thinking about getting them and try tubeless for first time.
I'm riding some hooked rims 48/48mm height and got caught in Spain in a Marine hitting 18% hills and going down of course.
Honestly a lower wheel wouldn't have made a real difference as wind was blowing me all around 🤣
How are the 4.5 Enve rated ? Fit, finish ?

FlatlandClimber
Posts: 2504
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

I would like to run the 6.7 as a front wheel on my TT bike. Not super easy to find a fitting tire.
The GP5000TT are among the few super fast tires, that are HL compatible. I fitted the 25s and the 28s. The 28s are officially rated for a 23mm internal TSS wheel, but come out wide af (over 29mm). The 25s come out to just under 27mm, which is perfect in my mind.
Continental does not rate their 25s for anything wider than 21c. That's per ETRTO 2023.
ENVE however says 25s can be used on these wheels, and even up to 90PSI.
I know the safest route will be going 28s, but I'd like to hear your take here. The 25s are very likely fastest, and since this is for TTing, that'd be pretty high up my priority list.
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg

*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7

mrlobber
Posts: 1972
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by mrlobber

You're an experienced and powerful rider, so it looks like you have already accepted the (small) risk of high-pressure hookless blowout. In that case, go for the 25s.

Personally, I wouldn't run anything wider than 25-26mm WAM hooked on the TT front wheel for the absolute majority of TT courses, and my choice of front wheel would be dictated by this (personal) requirement, not the other way around.
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FlatlandClimber
Posts: 2504
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

You are right about the risk of blowout in general with Hookless. I don't do crazy stuff (sharp cornering at high speeds, cobbles etc.) with the bike, but obviously don't want to run an unreasonably high risk of hitting the deck.
I guess 25s on a 23mm internal should generally be fine (they were until a few months ago), but the discrepancy between what ENVE says, and what Conti says doesn't make things simpler to grasp.
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg

*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7

spdntrxi
Posts: 6023
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

FlatlandClimber wrote:
Mon May 08, 2023 8:55 am
I would like to run the 6.7 as a front wheel on my TT bike. Not super easy to find a fitting tire.
The GP5000TT are among the few super fast tires, that are HL compatible. I fitted the 25s and the 28s. The 28s are officially rated for a 23mm internal TSS wheel, but come out wide af (over 29mm). The 25s come out to just under 27mm, which is perfect in my mind.
Continental does not rate their 25s for anything wider than 21c. That's per ETRTO 2023.
ENVE however says 25s can be used on these wheels, and even up to 90PSI.
I know the safest route will be going 28s, but I'd like to hear your take here. The 25s are very likely fastest, and since this is for TTing, that'd be pretty high up my priority list.
try to find a 5.6 or 7.8 front to use.. not much different then new 6.7 in depth, but a small internal width.
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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 13062
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

spdntrxi wrote:
Mon May 08, 2023 4:39 pm

try to find a 5.6 or 7.8 front to use.. not much different then new 6.7 in depth, but a small internal width.
Hard to say for sure, but it seems like my SES 5.6s with 25mm GP5K TT TdF tires catch more crosswind gusts than my Ascent Polaris 69s with 28mm GP5K S TR.

damond
Posts: 359
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:47 pm

by damond

I just got my first set of Enve's yesterday the new SES 4.5 paired with some nice chris king hubs.

I must confess i am a disappointed on how HARD it is to put the tires on these. I have been using tubeless tires/rims for 15 years now and i never, ever, saw anything close to these rims on how difficult it is to do the job.

Tried with Continental GP5000S TR's and Cadex tires (both on Enve approved list) and it was impossible to do it by hand, and made me sweat a lot doing it with levers. Are there any tricks on how to make this easier on these rims?

I just imagine myself on a road lane with a flat tire in the middle of nowhere and having to call my wife to pick me up (just like good old tubular times) because i can't put a tube on it.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 13062
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

damond wrote:
Thu Jun 15, 2023 8:09 am
Tried with Continental GP5000S TR's and Cadex tires (both on Enve approved list) and it was impossible to do it by hand, and made me sweat a lot doing it with levers. Are there any tricks on how to make this easier on these rims?
If you can't mount GP5K S TRs without much fuss, it's most likely a technique issue.

When you mount the tires you need to work all the slack out from around the tire toward the unmounted portion. To do this, I mount roughly half the bead, then grab the bead at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock and pull both outwards and downwards. I mount that portion of the tire and then slide my hands down to 4 o'clock and 8 o'clock and again pull outwards and down. Once I get down to 5 and 7, I really press out and down with my thumbs and palm pad. The tire beads will stay in the center channel if you do this properly.

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