Weight Weenies

Shmitt wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 22, 2023 7:36 pm

Does the kevlar insert significantly improve the strength of the spokes?
It would be good not to be surprised after an unexpected crash that the wheel broke or was unfit for further driving.
And a question for the Black Cat. In the event of a crash during a race or a fall while riding - will it be safe to continue using carbon wheels with carbon spokes?

This is the purpose. Kevlar rod is like a spine and carbon like muscles around it. It's much more difficult to brake kevlar.
Pure carbon can work too, look at LW wheels. In the past there were couple of design failures ex. Mavic carbon spokes, but with the current technology I believe it's going to be safe too. Important factor regarding reliability is the build itself. Angles, proper tension is a key. Carbon spokes shouldn't be stretched to high values. There is no point.

I personally believe that the future is with carbon spokes. They give significantly stiffer wheels. No steel or berd spokes can provide that.

Broken carbon spoke won't be any different from broken steel spoke. Some wheels will be rideable some not. Wheels laced with triplet/G3 probably won't be rideable. Standard 24 spoked wheel should be OK.

C36 wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:25 pm

3-5 Spoked wheels do have quite a lot of stiffness problems, or limitation outside TT type of applications, Biturbo, with bigger spokes, won't be very aero (eyballing it here).

Do you have any data to show why five spoke wheels would have stiffness problems? I am considering the Black Inc Five. Few other members gave positive feedback. Should I be concerned about something?

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On recent wheels no, the last one I have in mind were the Xentis 4 spokes (mark II?).

Historically the wheels where designed for aero, then narrow, no « bracing angle » in the blades, then challenging to support lateral flex.

I would be curious to see how the modern interpretation of those wheels behave.

cajer wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:34 pm

I'm intrested in more aerofoil shaped spokes over the current mostly flat bladed ones. Carbon may allow that.

I am in too.

Any experiences in MTB wheels with carbon spokes??

stermyx wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 01, 2023 3:56 pm

Any experiences in MTB wheels with carbon spokes??

Bad idea unless it's a strong, durable monocoque like the BikeAhead ones. Conventional spokes are liable to suffer damage and fail. I have absolutely no clue why Scott chose to make their first carbon spoked wheel a not particularly light MTB set. Seems mad. They've got Safa riding them atm ... hope that doesn't end in tears.

LightBicycles AR25 with Extralite Hubs and LB Carbon Spokes -> naked 874gr
the feeling is excellent, but 1 carbon spoke is broken after 3 rides on the Ti threaded, driving home is no Problem, i put a reserve spoke on it, hobe this would be a individual case ...

I'm considering a set of Light Bike wheels and not sure to get carbon spokes or just the regular. Carbon is stiffer and lighter but then the rim will have to have holes to access the nipples plus rim tape. Whereas the steel spokes version can have non holed rims and no rim tape to save weight and maybe stiffer without the rim holes? LB was not helpful... confused.

NMK wrote: ↑

Wed May 03, 2023 3:05 pm

I'm considering a set of Light Bike wheels and not sure to get carbon spokes or just the regular. Carbon is stiffer and lighter but then the rim will have to have holes to access the nipples plus rim tape. Whereas the steel spokes version can have non holed rims and no rim tape to save weight and maybe stiffer without the rim holes? LB was not helpful... confused.

I went for Light Bicycle AR465 + carbon ti + Carbon spoke last week. LB was quite helpful to answer my questions. There have both downside and upside for conventional hole-rim and no-hole-rim. (need or not need tape, harder or easier for spoke replacement work etc). I put my legs on carbon spokes this time as their more bladed shape that the steel spokes do not offer. I came across this review for Light Bicycle, very helpful but unfortunately, it does not refer too much to the carbon spoke...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZGNMTvwf6s

Why do you need access holes? Don't the newer carbon spokes use standard nipple threads (like the 'normal' LB ones, Nextie, Brisk etc).

The external part you see is bonded to the spoke, used to align them. The nipple to tighten is internal so need access holes.

C36 wrote: ↑

Sat May 06, 2023 1:59 pm

The external part you see is bonded to the spoke, used to align them. The nipple to tighten is internal so need access holes.

Nextie confirmed they use Sapim Polyax Secure Lock and no access holes with their carbon spokes ... the design of which seems broadly similar to most of the other culprits.

Edit: Brisk also.

RDY wrote:

C36 wrote: ↑

Sat May 06, 2023 1:59 pm

The external part you see is bonded to the spoke, used to align them. The nipple to tighten is internal so need access holes.

Nextie confirmed they use Sapim Polyax Secure Lock and no access holes with their carbon spokes ... the design of which seems broadly similar to most of the other culprits.

Edit: Brisk also.

Depends the spokes types.
- The Cadex, winspace type (or by LB in the video attached above) , using mechanically locking interface between carbon and aluminium do need holes to access them
- Some carbon spokes with the bonded Ti like the ones used by Brisk do use std nipples (and those would be the ones to use with carbonTi hubs listed above). There is not a big sample to get feedback but the two people I know using them already broke 3 spokes

Jasonlelam wrote:
I went for Light Bicycle AR465 + carbon ti + Carbon spoke last week. LB was quite helpful to answer my questions. There have both downside and upside for conventional hole-rim and no-hole-rim. (need or not need tape, harder or easier for spoke replacement work etc). I put my legs on carbon spokes this time as their more bladed shape that the steel spokes do not offer. I came across this review for Light Bicycle, very helpful but unfortunately, it does not refer too much to the carbon spoke...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZGNMTvwf6s

The carbon spokes expected to be used with carbon Ti hubs are different from the ones used in the video you linked.
The first ones have bonded inserts and compatible w/ std hubs. The second ones rely on mechanical lock and need specific hubs.

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C36 wrote: ↑

Tue May 09, 2023 10:01 am

RDY wrote:

C36 wrote: ↑

Sat May 06, 2023 1:59 pm

The external part you see is bonded to the spoke, used to align them. The nipple to tighten is internal so need access holes.

Nextie confirmed they use Sapim Polyax Secure Lock and no access holes with their carbon spokes ... the design of which seems broadly similar to most of the other culprits.

Edit: Brisk also.

Depends the spokes types.
- The Cadex, winspace type (or by LB in the video attached above) , using mechanically locking interface between carbon and aluminium do need holes to access them
- Some carbon spokes with the bonded Ti like the ones used by Brisk do use std nipples (and those would be the ones to use with carbonTi hubs listed above). There is not a big sample to get feedback but the two people I know using them already broke 3 spokes

Which brand(s) were the breakages with? What weight were the riders, and their rim depth? Presumably rear wheel spoke breakages?