New Michelin Power Cup Tubeless: GP5K S TR competitor

Wheels, Tires, Tubes, Tubeless, Tubs, Spokes, Hookless, Hubs, and more!

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TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

BigBoyND wrote:
Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:35 am
Strange sizing by Michelin.

So 25mm blows up to 28mm (3mm over TTS)
Then 28mm blows up to 30mm (2mm over TTS)
And 30mm blows up to... also 30mm (TTS)

And on the Aeolus RSL 37s (21mm internal, 28mm external) with regular tubeless tape, the 25s blew up to ~29.5mm.

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CampagYOLO
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Joined: Thu May 06, 2021 3:58 pm

by CampagYOLO

Sounds like the 28 and 30mm tyres are exactly the same just with different labels! 25mm Michelin tyres blowing up to 28mm has been happening since the Pro3/Pro4 days, must be something in the water there...

Not the tubeless ones but I've bought the 25mm tube type tyres as Merlin Cycles are selling them for £28 each. According to BRR the tread is wider than the tubeless tyres and it tested very well so looking forward to using them once the weather improved.
An actual width of just under 28mm will match well with my wheels.

FlatlandClimber
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Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

Also, differentiate between hookless and hooked internal. The ETRTO standard is based on 19c hooked or 21c hookless. So per ETRTO, a 25c tire should blow up to 25c on a 19c hooked and a 21c hookless.
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg

*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7

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C36
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by C36

FlatlandClimber wrote:Also, differentiate between hookless and hooked internal. The ETRTO standard is based on 19c hooked or 21c hookless. So per ETRTO, a 25c tire should blow up to 25c on a 19c hooked and a 21c hookless.
I think it’s based on 17c, not 19c. I can’t find my snapshot but recall the table starting at 17c.
Edit: it's 15c the starting point
Last edited by C36 on Thu Dec 15, 2022 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

C36 wrote:
Thu Dec 15, 2022 11:16 am
FlatlandClimber wrote:Also, differentiate between hookless and hooked internal. The ETRTO standard is based on 19c hooked or 21c hookless. So per ETRTO, a 25c tire should blow up to 25c on a 19c hooked and a 21c hookless.
I think it’s based on 17c, not 19c. I can’t find my snapshot but recall the table starting at 17c.

My 25mm tires even had tire pressure ratings on the sidewall for 15c rims.

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C36
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Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am

by C36

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Dec 15, 2022 11:59 am
C36 wrote:
Thu Dec 15, 2022 11:16 am
FlatlandClimber wrote:Also, differentiate between hookless and hooked internal. The ETRTO standard is based on 19c hooked or 21c hookless. So per ETRTO, a 25c tire should blow up to 25c on a 19c hooked and a 21c hookless.
I think it’s based on 17c, not 19c. I can’t find my snapshot but recall the table starting at 17c.

My 25mm tires even had tire pressure ratings on the sidewall for 15c rims.
Indeed, the table starts @ 15mm. Making sense for a std that needs to capture existing rims.

Image

FlatlandClimber
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Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

I just know from Conti, that they have their development based very closely on the ETRTO (hence they didn't allow the 5000 TL on HL).
And they base their tire sizes on 19c hooked:
Image
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg

*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12456
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

The 2022 ETRTO standard permits 25mm tires on 23C/TSS rims, but oddly Conti limits their 25mm tires to 21C/TSS.
Attachments
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FlatlandClimber
Posts: 2491
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

I only see two possible explanations for Conti not allowing a 25c to go on 23TSS:
1. They haven't tested it and therefore are stuck to the 2021 rules.
2. They have tested it and it didn't meet their internal standards (that are higher than the official 110%).
I find the second possibility to be relatively likely, as their GP 5000S TR has been criticiszed for being super narrow in the 25c iteration, and closer to a typical 23c of older ETRTO.
BRRs measurements have supported that rationale, with the all black coming out to 25.5mm on a 17.8mm internal hooked rim, and the tan wall version coming out to a even smaller 25mm.
Comparing that with other HL compatible tires, that are rated 25c in the same test set up:
Schwalbe Pro One TLE: 26mm
5000 TT TdF: 26.5mm
ENVE SES: 26.7mm
Power Cup TLR: 27.7mm
RapidAir 2022 (rated 26c): 26.4mm

With the Conti being narrower than all of those tires, and also significantly narrower than their own new TT tire, there might be a technical limitation or precaution here.

Also, it is not nearly as weird for the manufacturer to not allow mounting 25c tires on a 23TSS rim, as it is to not allow anything narrower than a 32c tire to a 21c rim, and nothing narrower than a 28c to mount on a 19c rim...
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg

*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7

spdntrxi
Posts: 5789
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

finally was able to order 28mm gum wall tubeless.. (last 2 in stock) Power Cup TLR
2024 BMC TeamMachine R Building
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2019 Parlee Z0XD - "classified"
2023 Pivot E-Vault - completed project, full Xplr package

naavt
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:58 pm

by naavt

I've just installed new Power Cups and the tread width compared to my PZeros is visibly smaller

Image

spdntrxi
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by spdntrxi

what size though ? this is well known on 25mm.
2024 BMC TeamMachine R Building
2018 BMC TImeMachine Road
2002 Moots Compact-SL- getting aero look makeover
2019 Parlee Z0XD - "classified"
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naavt
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:58 pm

by naavt

spdntrxi wrote:
Tue Dec 20, 2022 3:53 pm
what size though ? this is well known on 25mm.
Yes. 25

spdntrxi
Posts: 5789
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

naavt wrote:
Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:43 pm
spdntrxi wrote:
Tue Dec 20, 2022 3:53 pm
what size though ? this is well known on 25mm.
Yes. 25
Heard the 28's are different.. hope so. Mine are still in route
2024 BMC TeamMachine R Building
2018 BMC TImeMachine Road
2002 Moots Compact-SL- getting aero look makeover
2019 Parlee Z0XD - "classified"
2023 Pivot E-Vault - completed project, full Xplr package

by Weenie


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BuffHamster
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:23 am

by BuffHamster

After comparing the 30mm version of both Pro One TLE and Power Cup TLR, I can say the narrow tread width is 3-4 mm narrow so it's not a dealbreaker for 99% of riders. I corner more MTB style due to my background is from MTB so i will lean a lot more than others and the sidewall of the Power Cup does get some marks on it but not a deal breaker as this is only on really hard corners.

IMO the worry for "narrow" tread width is overexaggerated as this is only probably for the 25mm version where the 28/30mm versions should be fine for most people.

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