New Michelin Power Cup Tubeless: GP5K S TR competitor

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TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

BigBoyND wrote:
Mon May 13, 2024 5:01 am
Note that the 28mm tire isn't as "oversized" as the 25mm. It's only 1-1.5mm bigger.

Can't find the ETRTO table but it should be because the reference rim width is different for 25mm and 28mm.
BRR measured a 25mm tire at 27.7mm on a 17.8mm rim. The current ETRTO standard sizes 25mm tires against an internal width of 19mm. In order to comply with ETRTO guidelines a 25mm tire must be no larger than 27mm and no smaller than 23mm on a 19mm rim.

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BigBoyND
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by BigBoyND

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon May 13, 2024 5:25 am
BigBoyND wrote:
Mon May 13, 2024 5:01 am
Note that the 28mm tire isn't as "oversized" as the 25mm. It's only 1-1.5mm bigger.

Can't find the ETRTO table but it should be because the reference rim width is different for 25mm and 28mm.
BRR measured a 25mm tire at 27.7mm on a 17.8mm rim. The current ETRTO standard sizes 25mm tires against an internal width of 19mm. In order to comply with ETRTO guidelines a 25mm tire must be no larger than 27mm and no smaller than 23mm on a 19mm rim.
I didn't say it was within those guidelines (which were released after the tire was developed). I said the two sizes are measured on a different reference IW. That could be why the 28mm is only a tiny bit bigger than the 25mm.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

BigBoyND wrote:
Tue May 14, 2024 5:39 am

I didn't say it was within those guidelines (which were released after the tire was developed). I said the two sizes are measured on a different reference IW. That could be why the 28mm is only a tiny bit bigger than the 25mm.

IIRC the pertinent ETRTO guidelines were released in 2020 and all the brands were aware of the impending changes before that. The Power Cup was released in 2022. Both 25mm and 28mm tires are supposed to be designed around a 19mm inner width.
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BigBoyND
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Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 1:51 am

by BigBoyND

You're right. Seems 29mm is the cutoff, not 28mm. I wonder why the 25mm and 28mm are sized so close together then. Should be 3mm different but it's half that.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 13062
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by TobinHatesYou

BigBoyND wrote:
Wed May 15, 2024 5:12 am
You're right. Seems 29mm is the cutoff, not 28mm. I wonder why the 25mm and 28mm are sized so close together then. Should be 3mm different but it's half that.

The sidewall on the 25mm tire has pressure recommendations for 15mm rims. I think the 28mm sidewall goes down to 17mm. It really seems like Michelin, for whatever reason decided to stick to the ancient ETRTO guidelines when developing the Power Cup despite knowing the 2020 update was coming about a year in advance.

gurk700
Posts: 1043
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:40 pm

by gurk700

I wanted to chip in. I've been using Conti exclusively for the 9 years I've ridden road bikes. But when it comes to tires, I don't care. If they perform well, I'll use them. I'll switch brands no problem etc.
So when I wanted to try something new I've bought Power Cups 5-6 months ago. I have 2 identical wheelsets with Power Cup 28 TLR on one and Conti 5000 S TR 28 on the other.

Install: This is obviously wheel dependent but for me, both super easy to get on my wheels however conti took A LOT to seal at first. You better have a PERFECT tape install. It would lose a lot of pressure after rides for the first 2 days but then perfect afterwards. PowerCups just worked from get go for me. I didn't even ride them the first day and they still kept their pressure over night after install.

RR: It's very hard for me to tell you rolling resistance difference. Because of how supple they feel, it is easy to think real world rr is better on contis but realistically it's impossible for a person to tell IMO.

Comfort: After a long period of riding Power Cups when i jump back to Contis, I do notice a loooot of difference in suppleness. Contis feel a lot more comfortable to me. I check my PSI before every ride with a digital gauge and contis almost feel like I forgot to pump them all the way to my usual psi.

Durability: However, possibly related to that, Contis have been a lot more prone to cuts and flats. I've had 4 flats on Contis (1 front, 3 rear) where I just dynaplugged and kept going so nothing crazy but something to keep in mind. They have worked flawlessly since the flats. Michelins on the other hand had 0 flats and I don't even see cuts. Also with similar mileage on both sets, Conti rear has worn down quite a bit more. I can see that it's not nearly as round as Power Cups. Fronts are pretty much same and still very round.

In the end I'd happily ride / race either tire 0 issues. If you're looking for a bit more comfort, choose conti, if you're looking for a bit more longevity, choose powercups.

PS/EDIT: I was very worried about huge sidewalls and less center thread on the Michelins but this has been a non-issue for me for both flatting / cutting sidewalls or having good grip on descends.

BalticSea
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2023 5:51 pm

by BalticSea

On a semi-related note, has anyone heard any news about possible successor for Power Time Trial tyre? With better wet grip and optimization for modern widths it'd outperform even the new Enve Race Day tyres

lukaszzsch
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:31 pm

by lukaszzsch

Hi guys,

I have a question regarding to my tubeless setup on Michelin tires.
Yesterday I was inspecting the tires prior to filling up the sealant( had recently unpleasant adventure with Conti5TLS with dried sealant after two months)
When I opened front tire unexpectedly noticed that there was almost same amount of sealant I added 2 months ago(~45 mls). I was happy that Michelins power cup hold sealant much longer (generally speaking I treat them as much better tires than contis).
Checking rear tire I found almost no sealant…it confused me…

Why there was such significant difference in amount of sealant left? I’m rookie in tubeless business


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Ferry
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by Ferry

I have been using Turbo Cotton S "Hell of the North" 28 mm with Vittoria latex innertubes on my Roval CLX 50s (first generation) for the last years. I would like to give these Michelins a try (28 mm skinwall) or are these not suitable for a 21 mm inner rim width? Other option would be Vittoria Corsa Pro TLR 28 mm.

PS I will stick to latex innertubes.

rudye9mr
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 12:01 pm

by rudye9mr

What's the replacement for Power Road?

I ordered Power Road and got Power Cup Competition...so trying to understand what is the Power Road equivalent to?

Image

Image

Lithion 4 seems new

gurk700
Posts: 1043
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:40 pm

by gurk700

lukaszzsch wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2024 10:33 pm
Hi guys,

I have a question regarding to my tubeless setup on Michelin tires.
Yesterday I was inspecting the tires prior to filling up the sealant( had recently unpleasant adventure with Conti5TLS with dried sealant after two months)
When I opened front tire unexpectedly noticed that there was almost same amount of sealant I added 2 months ago(~45 mls). I was happy that Michelins power cup hold sealant much longer (generally speaking I treat them as much better tires than contis).
Checking rear tire I found almost no sealant…it confused me…

Why there was such significant difference in amount of sealant left? I’m rookie in tubeless business


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Not all tires are created the same. TLR tires can have tiny holes big enough for air to escape. Some tires have more than others even with same brand / model. When you first put in sealant, the sealant creates a film aaaaallll over the inside of your tire. It's an extra thin layer film that is very strong and puncture resistant and it covers up all the holes that air can escape from.

So possibly, your rear sealant had to cover up more holes and there's now less liquid sealant left inside it.
Another possibility, since we tend to flat more on the rear tire (as more weight is on and where power transfer happens) rear sealant had to close up all the tiny holes you get on the road.

Josh over at silca even mentioned on a video called tubeless vs tlr or something or rather. When you first setup your tires, you shouldn't wait too long to replenish sealant because a lot of that initial sealant you put in there was used to make your tire airtight.
I bet you if you added some sealant to your rear tire and checked in a few months, you'd have similar amounts left now that your rear tire is properly sealed.

bobones
Posts: 1339
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:19 am

by bobones

rudye9mr wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:49 pm
What's the replacement for Power Road?

I ordered Power Road and got Power Cup Competition...so trying to understand what is the Power Road equivalent to?
Power Cup is replacement for Power Road. Power Cup = Power Cup Competition.
rudye9mr wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:49 pm
Lithion 4 seems new
Lithion is lower level training tyre.

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C36
Posts: 2555
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am

by C36

rudye9mr wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:49 pm
What's the replacement for Power Road?
You basically got the newer generation of tires (power Comp being 2016 tires replaced in 2022 by the Power Cup)

rudye9mr
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Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 12:01 pm

by rudye9mr

Thanks for that^

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BigBoyND
Posts: 1561
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 1:51 am

by BigBoyND

Power Cup 30mm in black is now on BRR voting list.

I'd be curious to see how it performs, since most tires are slower in tan spec and the current Power Cup which matches the GP5k in RR was tan. Could the black be even faster?

For schwalbe MTB tires and Conti S TR, the speed difference is quite significant. Junior Varsity also said in the Goodyear thread that tan vulcanized tires tend to be 12-20% slower. If this rule of thumb applies to the Power Cup, the black version could be extremely fast. In the Raceday and TT TR region.

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