33g Inner Tube - Ridenow TPU

[C36]

FYI, those who rides rim brake and climbs/descends a lot should avoid ridenow TPU tubes.

Kirito Zhang (岛野肠粉), who tested the integral bar stiffness, etc., has tested the thermal limitation of this tube. RideNow exploded when the brake track of a carbon rim reached 154.7 C, which is lower than most of the brake track delamination temperature (160-220 C). Since the thermal conduction of carbon is very low, the softening temperature of RideNow is way lower than 150 C.

P. S., Alu has much higher thermal conduction than carbon. Don't risk yourself if you are descending with alu rim brake wheels.

Did he tested anything else? Butyl or latex? 150degC without other data points makes it difficult to assess.

[alanyu]

FYI, those who rides rim brake and climbs/descends a lot should avoid ridenow TPU tubes.

Kirito Zhang (岛野肠粉), who tested the integral bar stiffness, etc., has tested the thermal limitation of this tube. RideNow exploded when the brake track of a carbon rim reached 154.7 C, which is lower than most of the brake track delamination temperature (160-220 C). Since the thermal conduction of carbon is very low, the softening temperature of RideNow is way lower than 150 C.

P. S., Alu has much higher thermal conduction than carbon. Don't risk yourself if you are descending with alu rim brake wheels.

Did he tested anything else? Butyl or latex? 150degC without other data points makes it difficult to assess.

When he tested the braking performances of different rims (that article was posted on ww), he used butyl. The butyl didn't explode during 100 sec constant braking test on Zipp, whose brake track reached 210 C.

[Treptay]

FYI, those who rides rim brake and climbs/descends a lot should avoid ridenow TPU tubes.

Kirito Zhang (岛野肠粉), who tested the integral bar stiffness, etc., has tested the thermal limitation of this tube. RideNow exploded when the brake track of a carbon rim reached 154.7 C, which is lower than most of the brake track delamination temperature (160-220 C). Since the thermal conduction of carbon is very low, the softening temperature of RideNow is way lower than 150 C.

P. S., Alu has much higher thermal conduction than carbon. Don't risk yourself if you are descending with alu rim brake wheels.

Did he tested anything else? Butyl or latex? 150degC without other data points makes it difficult to assess.

More data would be nice, but the problem is, latex and TPU tubes aren't recommended for use with rim brakes. As far as I know, all manufacturers of latex don't recommend it for use with rim brakes.
Reveloop doesn't recommend their tubes on rim brakes.
Tubolito is more vague, they state that the tubes pass a certain safety standard, but that they can fail.
Ridenow says you can use it, but apparently they fail before carbon rims fail.

Seems that normal 100g butyl tubes or tubeless are the safest options, and if you are riding mostly flat, tpu should work too.

[SystemShock]

More data would be nice, but the problem is, latex and TPU tubes aren't recommended for use with rim brakes. As far as I know, all manufacturers of latex don't recommend it for use with rim brakes.

Really? While there's some small-fry, there's only two really big manufacturers of latex tubes (Challenge, and I think Vittoria?), and I don't recall them saying 'no rim brakes', but rather, be very cautious about using latex with carbon clincher rims, or maybe don't use that combo at all.

The following is from Velo News:

From Challenge:
It is correct to say that latex tubes should not be used in carbon clincher wheels. It is correct to say that latex does not handle heat well compared to butyl.

Butyl rubber can support much higher temperatures for longer periods of time.
The reason why latex works on carbon clincher wheels (this is my personal opinion), is due to the ability of the rider. Expert riders are able to do descents with limited use of brakes and [thus] give the possibility to the equipment to cool down. Never reach extreme heating. The heat is generated on the external part of the rim and will take time to transfer inside the rim.

Generally between tire and rim strip, the tube has no direct contact to the carbon rim and if there is no rim strip it is on the cool part of the rim.

Heat in carbon [rims] does not dissipate fast and generally seems to be concentrated in the braking area.

Criterium and other types of riding do not have [the] problem of wheels heating, so latex can be used with no problem. As manufacturers, we do not know how consumers will use the product, and, to be on the safe side, we prefer to give warning not to use it.

— Alex Brauns
President, Challenge Tech

From Vittoria:
1. I have run latex with our 3T and Easton carbon clincher wheels with no issue at all, including significant descents in the mountains of Utah. I will, however, forward this to our product manager Christian Lademann for a detailed answer.

— John McKone
Vittoria Road Marketing

2. What is the heat tolerance of the average lightweight butyl tube and latex tube?
If the tube reaches the level of 100-140 degrees Celsius, all kinds of inner tubes will be destroyed.

And, how often do carbon clinchers reach temperatures that would lead a latex tube to fail?

This really depend on several factors, such as rim construction, -size, -resin and -tape. But mainly [it depends] on the end-user brake skills.

Agree that, “shorter, more powerful braking produces less heat buildup than does prolonged braking.” Similar to car brakes.

It’s not the tire bead, but the tube that cannot withstand the heat and give a sudden high pressure to tire bead. By the way, our tires run through a CQ that request 200 percent of the suggested maximum pressure. Example: Open CORSA CX 23mm 10.0 bar max tires have to withstand 20.0 bar at our derailing machine.

Is there another reason besides the heat issue that makes latex tubes unsafe for carbon clinchers?

Tubes are a rather sensitive product in general. Either Latex- or superlight Butyl tubes tend to explode suddenly, if not being used correctly. Some rules need to be followed:

1. Do not overheat the system
2. Do not lock the tube in between tire bead and rim hook
3. Prevent tube over-stretching in general — use recommended air pressure, rim tape and tube size
4. Prevent any sharp edges in the system
5. Prevent contamination with any oily substances

— Christian Lademann
Product Manager, Vittoria S.p.A.

.

[Treptay]

More data would be nice, but the problem is, latex and TPU tubes aren't recommended for use with rim brakes. As far as I know, all manufacturers of latex don't recommend it for use with rim brakes.

Really? While there's some small-fry, there's only two really big manufacturers of latex tubes (Challenge, and I think Vittoria?), and I don't recall them saying 'no rim brakes', but rather, be very cautious about using latex with carbon clincher rims, or maybe don't use that combo at all.

The following is from Velo News:

From Challenge:
It is correct to say that latex tubes should not be used in carbon clincher wheels. It is correct to say that latex does not handle heat well compared to butyl.

Butyl rubber can support much higher temperatures for longer periods of time.
The reason why latex works on carbon clincher wheels (this is my personal opinion), is due to the ability of the rider. Expert riders are able to do descents with limited use of brakes and [thus] give the possibility to the equipment to cool down. Never reach extreme heating. The heat is generated on the external part of the rim and will take time to transfer inside the rim.

Generally between tire and rim strip, the tube has no direct contact to the carbon rim and if there is no rim strip it is on the cool part of the rim.

Heat in carbon [rims] does not dissipate fast and generally seems to be concentrated in the braking area.

Criterium and other types of riding do not have [the] problem of wheels heating, so latex can be used with no problem. As manufacturers, we do not know how consumers will use the product, and, to be on the safe side, we prefer to give warning not to use it.

— Alex Brauns
President, Challenge Tech

From Vittoria:
1. I have run latex with our 3T and Easton carbon clincher wheels with no issue at all, including significant descents in the mountains of Utah. I will, however, forward this to our product manager Christian Lademann for a detailed answer.

— John McKone
Vittoria Road Marketing

2. What is the heat tolerance of the average lightweight butyl tube and latex tube?
If the tube reaches the level of 100-140 degrees Celsius, all kinds of inner tubes will be destroyed.

And, how often do carbon clinchers reach temperatures that would lead a latex tube to fail?

This really depend on several factors, such as rim construction, -size, -resin and -tape. But mainly [it depends] on the end-user brake skills.

Agree that, “shorter, more powerful braking produces less heat buildup than does prolonged braking.” Similar to car brakes.

It’s not the tire bead, but the tube that cannot withstand the heat and give a sudden high pressure to tire bead. By the way, our tires run through a CQ that request 200 percent of the suggested maximum pressure. Example: Open CORSA CX 23mm 10.0 bar max tires have to withstand 20.0 bar at our derailing machine.

Is there another reason besides the heat issue that makes latex tubes unsafe for carbon clinchers?

Tubes are a rather sensitive product in general. Either Latex- or superlight Butyl tubes tend to explode suddenly, if not being used correctly. Some rules need to be followed:

1. Do not overheat the system
2. Do not lock the tube in between tire bead and rim hook
3. Prevent tube over-stretching in general — use recommended air pressure, rim tape and tube size
4. Prevent any sharp edges in the system
5. Prevent contamination with any oily substances

— Christian Lademann
Product Manager, Vittoria S.p.A.

.

Okay, maybe am I wrong about manufacturers of latex tubes explicitly saying that you shouldn't ride them, but they still admit that they can catastophicaly fail, if you brake a lot. I think that I read in another topic, that somebody had their latex tubes fail at a descent, which does sonund scary.
I do brake a lot, and me using aluminium rim brakes doesn't help with limiting the heat transfer to the inner tube.
Maybe I am too paranoid about something failing on my bike, and I just want a bike where I don't need to worry about having a certain ride style.

[SystemShock]

Okay, maybe am I wrong about manufacturers of latex tubes explicitly saying that you shouldn't ride them, but they still admit that they can catastophicaly fail, if you brake a lot. I think that I read in another topic, that somebody had their latex tubes fail at a descent, which does sonund scary.
I do brake a lot, and me using aluminium rim brakes doesn't help with limiting the heat transfer to the inner tube.
Maybe I am too paranoid about something failing on my bike, and I just want a bike where I don't need to worry about having a certain ride style.

Again, the major latex tube manufacturers aren't warning consumers about using their products with rim brakes and/or aluminum rims, they are warning about using latex with carbon clincher rims, because carbon does not dissipate heat well... the brake track heats up and stays too hot for too long. That's the issue they're pointing out.

Unless and until I hear something different from them on the matter, I'll take them at their word and assume that it's carbon clincher rims that I don't want to use their latex tubes with.

Definitely agree with you that a tube going boom during a fast descent would be terrifying.
.

[MikeD]

Okay, maybe am I wrong about manufacturers of latex tubes explicitly saying that you shouldn't ride them, but they still admit that they can catastophicaly fail, if you brake a lot. I think that I read in another topic, that somebody had their latex tubes fail at a descent, which does sonund scary.
I do brake a lot, and me using aluminium rim brakes doesn't help with limiting the heat transfer to the inner tube.
Maybe I am too paranoid about something failing on my bike, and I just want a bike where I don't need to worry about having a certain ride style.

Again, the major latex tube manufacturers aren't warning consumers about using their products with rim brakes and/or aluminum rims, they are warning about using latex with carbon clincher rims, because carbon does not dissipate heat well... the brake track heats up and stays too hot for too long. That's the issue they're pointing out.

Unless and until I hear something different from them on the matter, I'll take them at their word and assume that it's carbon clincher rims that I don't want to use their latex tubes with.

Definitely agree with you that a tube going boom during a fast descent would be terrifying.
.

You're right. However, Continental, who doesn't make latex tubes, put out a warning about using latex and light weight butyl tubes with rims that don't use a rim strip. https://blobs.continental-tires.com/www ... n-data.pdf

Also, riding fast downhill and having a tube explode from braking heat, I would think, is practically nill. That's because you're going fast enough for convective cooling to cool the rims effectively. The real danger is riding slow with constant braking on steep grades.

I've used latex tubes off and on. I've had two blow from heat (on my road and mountain bike), but that was due to the plastic rim strip melting at a spoke hole and the tube blew into the rim; not the fault of the tube. Both were at slow speed on gnarly, steep roads/fire roads.

[Mr.Gib]

From Challenge:
The reason why latex works on carbon clincher wheels (this is my personal opinion), is due to the ability of the rider. Expert riders are able to do descents with limited use of brakes and [thus] give the possibility to the equipment to cool down.
— Alex Brauns
President, Challenge Tech

This is totally terrain dependant. All that Alex Brauns is telling us is that he hasn't been anywhere. And the beautifully engineered roads in the mountains of western North America don't count. Yes riders who are skilled descenders are in less danger of a heat related failure, but there are endless small roads where you cannot let the bike go for even a minute for extended periods, or you will die. Many people who do not live in mountainous terrain with ancient farm roads, watch the grand tours and figure what's the big deal? And they are right, most of those roads are no big deal. But move on to smaller, seldom travelled roads where no sane person would ever conduct an actual race, and things can get extreme. And it's not just steepness of slope that is a problem. When the road is 3/4 of a lane wide and 20% for kilometers, you have got a real problem if your inner tubes are not up to the task with rim brakes regardless of rim material.

That said, I have faith in Schwalbe Aerothan. This summer I will test Aerothans descending this:

Steepest 100 meters is 29.6%, and this is the "easy" side. Harder side is for climbing only IMO. I will report back if I survive.

[SystemShock]

.
That said, I have faith in Schwalbe Aerothan. This summer I will test Aerothans descending this:

Steepest 100 meters is 29.6%, and this is the "easy" side. Harder side is for climbing only IMO. I will report back if I survive.

"God... is my co-pilot."
.

[biwa]

So on their FB page, RideNow mentioned the batches starting from March have resolved the leaking around the valve area (which is the most common failure for ALL TPU tubes, regardless of the manufacturer). Does anyone know how to identify these post-March batches?

[Treptay]

FYI, those who rides rim brake and climbs/descends a lot should avoid ridenow TPU tubes.

Kirito Zhang (岛野肠粉), who tested the integral bar stiffness, etc., has tested the thermal limitation of this tube. RideNow exploded when the brake track of a carbon rim reached 154.7 C, which is lower than most of the brake track delamination temperature (160-220 C). Since the thermal conduction of carbon is very low, the softening temperature of RideNow is way lower than 150 C.

P. S., Alu has much higher thermal conduction than carbon. Don't risk yourself if you are descending with alu rim brake wheels.

Did he tested anything else? Butyl or latex? 150degC without other data points makes it difficult to assess.

I was just looking at the schwalbe aerothan tubes.
On their website https://schwalbe.com/aerothan/en there is a graph with heat resistance of different tubes.
They comapre aerothan, their extralight tubes, a competitor TPU tube and competitor latex tube.
I cannot find if they state which competitor tube, but going of the colors, I would say tubolito and maybe michelin latex tubes (they are green).
The TPU and latex tubes fail at 130 degrees, and aerothan is slightly better than the extralight butyl tubes.

Unfortunately, I cannot find more info on this experiment, or where they measured the temperature, I assume on the rim.

Somewhat of a conclusion is, that latex and tpu (tubolito?) have similar failure points, and normal 100g butyl tubes should have much higher heat resistance (they are not on the chart, but should perform way better than the extralight tubes).

Are there any other simillar tests done by another company? It would be usefull to compare the results.

[johnsmith5610]

Tobolito has done some tests, from their faq's:

--
Are Tubolitos ready for rim brakes? What about heat resistance while braking?

While our road products are also made for rim brakes, the tubes for MTB can only be used with disc brakes. This is due to the different processing of the material.

Our road products do comply with the test DIN4210 (15 minutes of braking with maximum 10×10 seconds interruption) with aluminium and carbon rims.

Doing a disruptive test, meaning braking as long till the product is defect, Tubolitos do not lose the air explosively such as butyl products but slowly over several minutes.
--

https://www.tubolito.com/faq/

[Beancouter]

Any one have a view as to whether the valve stems could be cut? On some of these TPU tubes the presta valve is screwed into the tube.

I have 3 coming but don’t really like the thought of a 65mm rocket sticking out of a 35m rim!


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[usr]

You made me curious so I put one from my seemingly infinity supply of punctured Tubolitos to the Dremel (well, Dremel clone):

Those have much thicker walls below the valve and even the part where the moving bit of the valve resides is narrower (thicker wall) than the part with the thread. So no, you can't just cut the stem to measure, but yes, there's enough material in place so that in theory you could cut, drill to fit the bottom of the valve and cut/mold a thread. Other brands, particularly those aggressively aiming to undercut Tubolito in weight, might have different stem designs though.

[Beancouter]

Good research! I also have a seemingly endless supply of Tubolitos but hadn’t thought about putting one to good use.

When one of the ridenow tubes has a puncture, might do the same.


Thanks


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