Deep aero - DT Swiss Arc Dicut 1400 vs Bontrager Aeolus RSL
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The spirit of this board is to compile and organize wheels and tires related discussions.
If a new wheel tech is released, (say for example, TPU tubes, a brand new tire, or a new rim standard), feel free to start the discussion in the popular "Road". Your topic will eventually be moved here!
Hi,
Quite torn between these 2 aero wheelset (deep rim):
1) latest version of dt swiss arc dicut 1400 disc brake 80mm depth front and rear
Total weight 1830g
20mm rim int width / 32mm rim ext width
Hooked
DT swiss 240 exp hub
£500 cheaper than the Bontrager wheelset
The arc dicut 1100 is totally out of stock everywhere so not a choice
2) latest version of Bontrager Aeolus RSL disc brake 75mm depth front and rear
Total weight 1640g (quite considerably lighter)
23mm rim int width / 31mm rim ext width
Hooked
Dt swiss 240 exp hubs
£500 more expensive than the Dt Swiss wheelset
Assuming carbon quality and aero performance is similar between the two brands (unless I'm wrong), I'm quite unsure about the rim width profile...
Dt swiss must have done lots of research for their latest wheelset to go 20int and 32ext, but Bontrager have increased the int width to 23mm which would be quite good for tyre pressure...
Which one of these wheelsets would be more aero? The one with lower internal rim width but larger external (ie. dts) or the one with larger int rim width and lower ext rim width (ie. Bontrager)?
Is the larger internal rim width (23mm) of Bontrager going to play well with 25mm clincher tyre with inner tube? Or would the tyre pressure drop feel "weird" on the road? I've seen a review of the Aeolus rsl 62 where the reviewer wasn't too impressed with the ride feel at lower pressure on 25mm tyres...
I would be using 25mm gp5000 clincher front and rear (or perhaps 28mm rear) with latex tube.
What about rim/carbon quality and reliability? Is dt swiss better than Bontrager? And what about their aero performance data?
The 3 key factors at play for me are
rim profile width (ie aero performance)
overall weight
Price
Should I stick with the slightly deeper rim at 80mm and get a c. 200g weight penalty, and stick with slightly smaller internal rim width (20mm of dt swiss) and pay for £500 less OR pay £500 more, get a lighter wheelset and larger rim width (although I'm a bit concerned about the aero performance here)?
Quite confused with these two wheelsets so thanks for your help and feedback!
Quite torn between these 2 aero wheelset (deep rim):
1) latest version of dt swiss arc dicut 1400 disc brake 80mm depth front and rear
Total weight 1830g
20mm rim int width / 32mm rim ext width
Hooked
DT swiss 240 exp hub
£500 cheaper than the Bontrager wheelset
The arc dicut 1100 is totally out of stock everywhere so not a choice
2) latest version of Bontrager Aeolus RSL disc brake 75mm depth front and rear
Total weight 1640g (quite considerably lighter)
23mm rim int width / 31mm rim ext width
Hooked
Dt swiss 240 exp hubs
£500 more expensive than the Dt Swiss wheelset
Assuming carbon quality and aero performance is similar between the two brands (unless I'm wrong), I'm quite unsure about the rim width profile...
Dt swiss must have done lots of research for their latest wheelset to go 20int and 32ext, but Bontrager have increased the int width to 23mm which would be quite good for tyre pressure...
Which one of these wheelsets would be more aero? The one with lower internal rim width but larger external (ie. dts) or the one with larger int rim width and lower ext rim width (ie. Bontrager)?
Is the larger internal rim width (23mm) of Bontrager going to play well with 25mm clincher tyre with inner tube? Or would the tyre pressure drop feel "weird" on the road? I've seen a review of the Aeolus rsl 62 where the reviewer wasn't too impressed with the ride feel at lower pressure on 25mm tyres...
I would be using 25mm gp5000 clincher front and rear (or perhaps 28mm rear) with latex tube.
What about rim/carbon quality and reliability? Is dt swiss better than Bontrager? And what about their aero performance data?
The 3 key factors at play for me are
rim profile width (ie aero performance)
overall weight
Price
Should I stick with the slightly deeper rim at 80mm and get a c. 200g weight penalty, and stick with slightly smaller internal rim width (20mm of dt swiss) and pay for £500 less OR pay £500 more, get a lighter wheelset and larger rim width (although I'm a bit concerned about the aero performance here)?
Quite confused with these two wheelsets so thanks for your help and feedback!
I would go with the Bontragers. I have the XXX 4 tubular rim brake wheelset and has been very good (2 years of use now). The carbon used seems to be very high quality, with a beautiful weave. Plus the warranty on the Bontragers are far better than the Dts if I’m correct. Also in my personal case the XXX have been very very stable with crosswinds, and I only weight 60kg, so they are good in that reward. Obviously the 75mm should be a bit more prone to winds but they have further developed the rim profile so should be good still.
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According to the latest tour test, ARC 1100 62 is 216.1W, while Aeolus RSL 62 is 216.4W. Thus, the difference between ARC 80 and RSL 75 should be no more than 1W. The side wind stablity of ARC 62 is 6 while that of RSL 62 is 4 (lower the better). The sttifness of ARC is 54/49 N.m, while RSL 54/44 N.m. Plus the weight difference you already know. I would choose RSL without a doubt.
can you tell us how the new shimano wheels tested ?
alanyu wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:53 pmAccording to the latest tour test, ARC 1100 62 is 216.1W, while Aeolus RSL 62 is 216.4W. Thus, the difference between ARC 80 and RSL 75 should be no more than 1W. The side wind stablity of ARC 62 is 6 while that of RSL 62 is 4 (lower the better). The sttifness of ARC is 54/49 N.m, while RSL 54/44 N.m. Plus the weight difference you already know. I would choose RSL without a doubt.
Current Rides:
2023 Tarmac SL7 Di2 9270
ex 2019 S-works SL6
ex 2018 Trek Madone SLR Disc
ex 2016 Giant TCRAdvanced Sl
ex 2012 Trek Madone7
2023 Tarmac SL7 Di2 9270
ex 2019 S-works SL6
ex 2018 Trek Madone SLR Disc
ex 2016 Giant TCRAdvanced Sl
ex 2012 Trek Madone7
thanks i am guessing zipp did the worst from the bunch.
Current Rides:
2023 Tarmac SL7 Di2 9270
ex 2019 S-works SL6
ex 2018 Trek Madone SLR Disc
ex 2016 Giant TCRAdvanced Sl
ex 2012 Trek Madone7
2023 Tarmac SL7 Di2 9270
ex 2019 S-works SL6
ex 2018 Trek Madone SLR Disc
ex 2016 Giant TCRAdvanced Sl
ex 2012 Trek Madone7
emm, Vision is the worst in the bunch actually, but not many people buy that wheel AFAIK.
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Let me share the data here.TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 3:50 am
And the 454?
Given the 454 is 53/58mm deep, I'd expect it to be slower than the 60mm+ wheels in the test.
model, aero, stablity (lower the better), stiffness, weight
New DA C60., 216.3W, 6..., 55/46, 1638g
Metron 60....., 217.4W, 8..., 42/39, 1652g
454 NSW......., 217.3W, 6..., 48/44, 1380g
RSL 62.........., 216.4W, 4..., 55/44, 1538g
WTO 60........., 218.1W, 9..., 50/49, 1540g
ARC1100 62., 216.1W, 6..., 54/49, 1698g
I actually pre-ordered a set of Metron 60, but after seeing the data you shared with us, i am really thinking on cancelling it...
Did they tested all the wheels with 25mm tires?
How was this tested?alanyu wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 12:54 pmLet me share the data here.TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 3:50 am
And the 454?
Given the 454 is 53/58mm deep, I'd expect it to be slower than the 60mm+ wheels in the test.
model, aero, stablity (lower the better), stiffness, weight
New DA C60., 216.3W, 6..., 55/46, 1638g
Metron 60....., 217.4W, 8..., 42/39, 1652g
454 NSW......., 217.3W, 6..., 48/44, 1380g
RSL 62.........., 216.4W, 4..., 55/44, 1538g
WTO 60........., 218.1W, 9..., 50/49, 1540g
ARC1100 62., 216.1W, 6..., 54/49, 1698g
All these wattage (aero) measurements look like they fall in the margin of error, even for a top wind tunnel. For some wind tunnels this is c. 5w-10w, or more for automotive, or aerospace wind tunnels.
Weight on the other hand...
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress
I think it was done with 25mm but I didn't find the tire size in the wheel test chapter. They mentioned nowadays wider wheels work well with even 28/30 mm tires. Maybe I missed something since I used google translate to read.
so bonty's rsl are more aero/stable the dimpled/sawtooth/overhyped zipp's. the decline of zipp is complete.
comparing the aero wheel test from last year the dtswiss 50/roval rapides acheived 218W. so the aero gain going up 10mm is about 2 watts. sweet spot of the mid length wheelsets.
comparing the aero wheel test from last year the dtswiss 50/roval rapides acheived 218W. so the aero gain going up 10mm is about 2 watts. sweet spot of the mid length wheelsets.
alanyu wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 12:54 pmLet me share the data here.TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 3:50 am
And the 454?
Given the 454 is 53/58mm deep, I'd expect it to be slower than the 60mm+ wheels in the test.
model, aero, stablity (lower the better), stiffness, weight
New DA C60., 216.3W, 6..., 55/46, 1638g
Metron 60....., 217.4W, 8..., 42/39, 1652g
454 NSW......., 217.3W, 6..., 48/44, 1380g
RSL 62.........., 216.4W, 4..., 55/44, 1538g
WTO 60........., 218.1W, 9..., 50/49, 1540g
ARC1100 62., 216.1W, 6..., 54/49, 1698g
Current Rides:
2023 Tarmac SL7 Di2 9270
ex 2019 S-works SL6
ex 2018 Trek Madone SLR Disc
ex 2016 Giant TCRAdvanced Sl
ex 2012 Trek Madone7
2023 Tarmac SL7 Di2 9270
ex 2019 S-works SL6
ex 2018 Trek Madone SLR Disc
ex 2016 Giant TCRAdvanced Sl
ex 2012 Trek Madone7
Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓ Broad Selection ✓ Worldwide Delivery ✓
www.starbike.com
They measured the aerodynamics in +-20 deg yaw window and then normalized the data. At 0 yaw the difference is small, less than 5W between the best and the worst, but at big yaw the difference can be as large as 15W.Nickldn wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 5:51 pmHow was this tested?alanyu wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 12:54 pmLet me share the data here.TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 3:50 am
And the 454?
Given the 454 is 53/58mm deep, I'd expect it to be slower than the 60mm+ wheels in the test.
model, aero, stablity (lower the better), stiffness, weight
New DA C60., 216.3W, 6..., 55/46, 1638g
Metron 60....., 217.4W, 8..., 42/39, 1652g
454 NSW......., 217.3W, 6..., 48/44, 1380g
RSL 62.........., 216.4W, 4..., 55/44, 1538g
WTO 60........., 218.1W, 9..., 50/49, 1540g
ARC1100 62., 216.1W, 6..., 54/49, 1698g
All these wattage (aero) measurements look like they fall in the margin of error, even for a top wind tunnel. For some wind tunnels this is c. 5w-10w, or more for automotive, or aerospace wind tunnels.
Weight on the other hand...