NEW GP5000S TR

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warthog101
Posts: 872
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:05 am

by warthog101

Maddie wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:13 am
You are comparing a road bike race tire with a budget car tire. You will find perfectly usable road bike tires for 10 USD or less that will last a long time. You will also find car rice tires that won't last 1000 km but cost more than 1000 USD.
I understand that. However the car tyre has a shit load more material in it. Way, way more casing material and rubber.
Transport, storage and fitting costs.
Lasts 50+k km.
Yes economies of scale, but it still doesn't go close to covering the comparative price differential.
Also I spent years riding GP4k tubed tyres that I got for less than half the price.
Yes they were tubed, not tubeless.
I really struggle to accept the price as value for money.
Others don't, but that is how I view it.

Yes I do buy cheaper tyres that still perform pretty well.

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

warthog101 wrote:
Maddie wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:13 am
You are comparing a road bike race tire with a budget car tire. You will find perfectly usable road bike tires for 10 USD or less that will last a long time. You will also find car rice tires that won't last 1000 km but cost more than 1000 USD.
I understand that. However the car tyre has a shit load more material in it. Way, way more casing material and rubber.
Transport, storage and fitting costs.
Lasts 50+k km.
Yes economies of scale, but it still doesn't go close to covering the comparative price differential.
Also I spent years riding GP4k tubed tyres that I got for less than half the price.
Yes they were tubed, not tubeless.
I really struggle to accept the price as value for money.
Others don't, but that is how I view it.

Yes I do buy cheaper tyres that still perform pretty well.
Comparing GP5000 TR tyres to any regular car tyre is pointless. You need to compare them to competition tyres for a car for it to be apples to apples.


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warthog101
Posts: 872
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:05 am

by warthog101

ultimobici wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:43 am
warthog101 wrote:
Maddie wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:13 am
You are comparing a road bike race tire with a budget car tire. You will find perfectly usable road bike tires for 10 USD or less that will last a long time. You will also find car rice tires that won't last 1000 km but cost more than 1000 USD.
I understand that. However the car tyre has a shit load more material in it. Way, way more casing material and rubber.
Transport, storage and fitting costs.
Lasts 50+k km.
Yes economies of scale, but it still doesn't go close to covering the comparative price differential.
Also I spent years riding GP4k tubed tyres that I got for less than half the price.
Yes they were tubed, not tubeless.
I really struggle to accept the price as value for money.
Others don't, but that is how I view it.

Yes I do buy cheaper tyres that still perform pretty well.
Comparing GP5000 TR tyres to any regular car tyre is pointless. You need to compare them to competition tyres for a car for it to be apples to apples.


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Why then are the s tr so much more expensive than the GP4k or even the tubed GP5k? They were still race tyres.
Sorry, I struggle to see why the tubeless costs what it does in terms of manufacturing and distribution costs. It just doesn't add up to me.
In terms of the comparison with a performance car tyre it still doesn't add up either when you look at the size differential in terms of manufacturing and distribution.

Still, I am just whinging, largely to people who are happy to pay that price.
It isn't called the Conti whinge thread and they are in business to make money.
Chapeau Continental. They have done very well.

Hexsense
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by Hexsense

Continental ExtremeContact DWS06+ in the car world is probably the closest thing to GP5000 (tube type).
Continental ExtremeContact DWS06+ is Continental's UHP all season tires. Reigning the highest performance all season tires Continental made. It got AA rating wet grip. It works in all seasons. It is relatively quiet and smooth while handling is sporty. And it has decent tread life (UTQG threadwear 560) for daily spirited driving/training. There are other tires that are more performance oriented for track/race days, but none are as well rounded as the DWS06+ for daily use on street. That sound like GP5000 which do great from light smooth gravel to endurance base miles to race days with decent durability. It's not giving up too much durability/versitility for raceday performance.

DWS06+ are $150-300 each depending on size. GP5000 tube type is $35-50. It's almost fair. I think.
GP5000S TR with thinner tread is more like a raceday tires though. That would compare with ExtremeContact Sport 02. Which is about double the price and half the thread life of ExtremeContact DWS06+.

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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

warthog101 wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:52 am
Why then are the s tr so much more expensive than the GP4k or even the tubed GP5k? They were still race tyres.
I know I am stating the obvious but again its just market economics. Conti has a tire for which consumers are willing to pay more than the competition. Specifically the price is set to maximize profit - they could lower the price and sell more, but depending on profit margin, the needed increase in sales to generate the same profit might not be acheivable. And likewise, an increase in price might cause sales to fall off to the point that again profit would decline. This thinking does ignore alternate motivation such as market share, brand recognition, etc. but I believe Conti has those covered pretty well.

My take is basically that Conti knows they have a winner in the TR and people are willing to pay a high price for them. Similarities or differences with other tires, even within the Conti brand are likely irrelevant to the company. The focus on demand to maximize profit is a better way to run the business. Perhaps the real issue is that Conti is not charging enough for the tubed GP5K?
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Nickldn
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by Nickldn

Mr.Gib wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2023 4:15 pm
Conti knows they have a winner in the TR and people are willing to pay a high price for them.

The focus on demand to maximize profit is a better way to run the business.
Yep, totally agree. We need credible competitor products in the tubless space. Are there any?
Mr.Gib wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2023 4:15 pm
Perhaps the real issue is that Conti is not charging enough for the tubed GP5K?
I guess there are more competitors in the tubed space, or customers are less focused on RR, so the GP5000 doesn't stand out as so much 'better' than the rest.
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Mocs123
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by Mocs123

My guess is that it has something to do with the fact that the GP5000 is an older player in the market, despite still being reguarded by many as being the best all around clincher out there. The GP5000S-TR is a newer offering and we haven't seen prices fall too much on it yet, though I've seen them as low as $55.00 USD per tire, which is nearly half of MSRP, and nearly as cheap as I've seen the regular GP5000 ($44.00 USD).
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Nickldn
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by Nickldn

Mocs123 wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2023 8:58 pm
The GP5000S-TR is a newer offering and we haven't seen prices fall too much on it yet, though I've seen them as low as $55.00 USD per tire, which is nearly half of MSRP, and nearly as cheap as I've seen the regular GP5000 ($44.00 USD).
You say that but the GP5000S TR was considered by many (most) as a downgrade from the earlier GP5000TL, due to lower puncture resistance and very similar RR. In fact the only real advantage of the new TR is that it is easier to fit (complies better with new ETRTO standards for tubless tyres). If the TL was reintroduced tomorrow with better fit I bet it would outsell the TR!
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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Nickldn wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2023 10:31 pm

You say that but the GP5000S TR was considered by many (most) as a downgrade from the earlier GP5000TL, due to lower puncture resistance and very similar RR. In fact the only real advantage of the new TR is that it is easier to fit (complies better with new ETRTO standards for tubless tyres). If the TL was reintroduced tomorrow with better fit I bet it would outsell the TR!

The TR has added sidewall protection, which is necessary for the roads I ride on. I don't really care that much about center tread puncture resistance because those usually seal.

Maddie
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by Maddie

Besides of the terrible installation, the TL was also a lot heavier than the S TR. The S TR is certainly a big upgrade to me.

kervelo
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by kervelo

Team Intermarche used the new AS TR tyre in Flanders:

Image

warthog101
Posts: 872
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:05 am

by warthog101

Mr.Gib wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2023 4:15 pm
warthog101 wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:52 am
Why then are the s tr so much more expensive than the GP4k or even the tubed GP5k? They were still race tyres.
I know I am stating the obvious but again its just market economics. Conti has a tire for which consumers are willing to pay more than the competition. Specifically the price is set to maximize profit - they could lower the price and sell more, but depending on profit margin, the needed increase in sales to generate the same profit might not be acheivable. And likewise, an increase in price might cause sales to fall off to the point that again profit would decline. This thinking does ignore alternate motivation such as market share, brand recognition, etc. but I believe Conti has those covered pretty well.

My take is basically that Conti knows they have a winner in the TR and people are willing to pay a high price for them. Similarities or differences with other tires, even within the Conti brand are likely irrelevant to the company. The focus on demand to maximize profit is a better way to run the business. Perhaps the real issue is that Conti is not charging enough for the tubed GP5K?
Yes agree that the price seems set to maximise profit.
I don't see it justified by manufacturing or distribution costs.
People are prepared to pay the price and you would expect they are making good money. As I said, chapeau Continental

As somebody else said, we need more competition to affect demand.
Don't know that others won't follow the Conti lead in terms of pricing though.

spartacus
Posts: 1049
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:53 pm

by spartacus

kervelo wrote:
Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:14 am
Team Intermarche used the new AS TR tyre in Flanders:

Image
The AS feels pretty fast, curious how it ends up in the RR tests.

Hexsense
Posts: 3269
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Location: USA

by Hexsense

spartacus wrote:
Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:23 pm
The AS feels pretty fast, curious how it ends up in the RR tests.
Published: 2023-03-31
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... 5000-as-tr

by Weenie


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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

warthog101 wrote:
Mr.Gib wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2023 4:15 pm
warthog101 wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:52 am
Why then are the s tr so much more expensive than the GP4k or even the tubed GP5k? They were still race tyres.
I know I am stating the obvious but again its just market economics. Conti has a tire for which consumers are willing to pay more than the competition. Specifically the price is set to maximize profit - they could lower the price and sell more, but depending on profit margin, the needed increase in sales to generate the same profit might not be acheivable. And likewise, an increase in price might cause sales to fall off to the point that again profit would decline. This thinking does ignore alternate motivation such as market share, brand recognition, etc. but I believe Conti has those covered pretty well.

My take is basically that Conti knows they have a winner in the TR and people are willing to pay a high price for them. Similarities or differences with other tires, even within the Conti brand are likely irrelevant to the company. The focus on demand to maximize profit is a better way to run the business. Perhaps the real issue is that Conti is not charging enough for the tubed GP5K?
Yes agree that the price seems set to maximise profit.
I don't see it justified by manufacturing or distribution costs.
People are prepared to pay the price and you would expect they are making good money. As I said, chapeau Continental

As somebody else said, we need more competition to affect demand.
Don't know that others won't follow the Conti lead in terms of pricing though.
If you think anything you buy is priced solely by calculating how much the raw materials & labour are you don’t understand capitalism or free market economics.


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