Weight Weenies

Confused about these tyres. I have the PZero Race TLR (non SL) in 28c and a pair of Giant SLR1 hookless wheels. Giant site says not safe to use these tyres on hookless rims, Pirelli site says they are safe. Who's right?

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^ I default to wheel makers opinion.

spdntrxi wrote: ↑

Fri May 06, 2022 10:21 pm

^ I default to wheel makers opinion.

Actually, according to zipp is supposed to be the tire manufacturer to assure if those are made according to the latest etro guidelines.

pmprego wrote: ↑

Fri May 06, 2022 11:21 pm

spdntrxi wrote: ↑

Fri May 06, 2022 10:21 pm

^ I default to wheel makers opinion.

Actually, according to zipp is supposed to be the tire manufacturer to assure if those are made according to the latest etro guidelines.

just stating whom I would chose to believe.. is all.

pmprego wrote: ↑

Fri May 06, 2022 11:21 pm

spdntrxi wrote: ↑

Fri May 06, 2022 10:21 pm

^ I default to wheel makers opinion.

Actually, according to zipp is supposed to be the tire manufacturer to assure if those are made according to the latest etro guidelines.

Zipp states that as long as the tire brand says their tire is hookless compatible, then you can use it on their rims if you follow ETRTO guidelines… aka max 73psi and pay attention to tire width vs internal width. Don’t use 25mm tires on >21mm TSS rims.

TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑

Sat May 07, 2022 12:26 am

pmprego wrote: ↑

Fri May 06, 2022 11:21 pm

spdntrxi wrote: ↑

Fri May 06, 2022 10:21 pm

^ I default to wheel makers opinion.

Actually, according to zipp is supposed to be the tire manufacturer to assure if those are made according to the latest etro guidelines.

Zipp states that as long as the tire brand says their tire is hookless compatible, then you can use it on their rims if you follow ETRTO guidelines… aka max 73psi and pay attention to tire width vs internal width. Don’t use 25mm tires on >21mm TSS rims.

Not correct, there are several 25mm tires compatible with the Zipp 303S & 404FC 23mm int. width wheels.

https://www.sram.com/en/zipp/campaigns/ ... patibility

28mm Veloflex Corsa Tle on my Zipp303S -> 28.7mm
25mm Schwalbe One Pro Tle on my Zipp 404FC -> 27.2mm

Been running the 24mm TLR SLs on two bikes for a little over 3000km collectively (majority on one set with about 2500km). Some thoughts:

- They inflate to about 25mm on my 19mm internal width Bora WTOs, and 26mm on my Aeolus XXX4/6 set.
- Running with standard Stans sealant, I've seens a ton of tiny punctures all over bubble up and seal. If the bike sits for a few days, you can see where all of them are as air and bits of sealant continue to escape
- Currently, I lose about 3-5 PSI over the course of my average ride (~80-100km, with 3-5hr in the saddle after stops and photo ops with friends)
- In my opinion, I think they ride great and have no discernable differences when up to speed than my previous 25mm GP5k TLs
- Cornering grip is almost as confidence inspiring as the GP5k but still missing that last bit. Hard to articulate, but most riders won't notice unless riding back-to-back and on technical descents
- They look great, with that Pirelli Panache in the logos and a simple tread design

CharlieDG wrote:Confused about these tyres. I have the PZero Race TLR (non SL) in 28c and a pair of Giant SLR1 hookless wheels. Giant site says not safe to use these tyres on hookless rims, Pirelli site says they are safe. Who's right?

I have the same tyres still boxed.
On the box;
"Sizes 26-622 and below are NOT are not compatible with hookless rims. Sizes 28-622 and above are compatible with hookless rims subject to ETRTO 5bar/73 psi max pressure limitation."

Hmm ok so why does Giant say they aren't compatible in 28c?

Giant site says: 'Please note that if the maximum pressure indicated on the sidewall of a tyre is below 72.5psi (5 bar), the tyre is tubeless compatible, and is not indicated as being incompatible with hookless rims, it can be used with Giant hookless WheelSystems and does not have to appear on the 'what tyres can I use?' chart.'

Have Giant actually made a mistake and these tyres are ok so long as they stay under 72psi?

CharlieDG wrote: ↑

Tue May 10, 2022 4:36 pm

Hmm ok so why does Giant say they aren't compatible in 28c?

Giant site says: 'Please note that if the maximum pressure indicated on the sidewall of a tyre is below 72.5psi (5 bar), the tyre is tubeless compatible, and is not indicated as being incompatible with hookless rims, it can be used with Giant hookless WheelSystems and does not have to appear on the 'what tyres can I use?' chart.'

Have Giant actually made a mistake and these tyres are ok so long as they stay under 72psi?

Giant probably actually tested these tires and found a reason to list them as incompatible...??

CharlieDG wrote:Hmm ok so why does Giant say they aren't compatible in 28c?

Giant site says: 'Please note that if the maximum pressure indicated on the sidewall of a tyre is below 72.5psi (5 bar), the tyre is tubeless compatible, and is not indicated as being incompatible with hookless rims, it can be used with Giant hookless WheelSystems and does not have to appear on the 'what tyres can I use?' chart.'

Have Giant actually made a mistake and these tyres are ok so long as they stay under 72psi?

I have no idea sorry, nor why the 26 and under is listed as incompatible with hookless.
The 26 is for hooked tubeless front I have on the roadie.
The 28 either the rear tubeless on the same bike, or the hookless front of my WR50s.
Not concerned by the Giant advice as not using Giant wheels. The wheels are ETRTO compliant and on the front will be at under 4 bar ~55psi.
Currently running a 32 on the front at that pressure and it is too high at my weight, 76kg

Perhaps Giant is being conservative by listing the tyre as incompatible.
Given the 26 and under are not, they may have just listed the tyre as no-go to stop the chance of a 26 being placed on their hookless wheels?

Again... a wheel manufacturer is responsible for their wheels. a tire manufacturer is responsible for their tires. It's the customer that ahve to do the matching of these.
If a wheel is made according to etrto guidelines then it will accept a tire that is made according to the etrto guidelines.
Pirelli is clearly stating that their 28c tires are made according to the etrto guidelines and must be used according to the those same etrto guidelines. They are also saying that the 26c and below are NOT.

pmprego wrote:Again... a wheel manufacturer is responsible for their wheels. a tire manufacturer is responsible for their tires. It's the customer that ahve to do the matching of these.
If a wheel is made according to etrto guidelines then it will accept a tire that is made according to the etrto guidelines.
Pirelli is clearly stating that their 28c tires are made according to the etrto guidelines and must be used according to the those same etrto guidelines. They are also saying that the 26c and below are NOT.

That seems like a good summary.

They could clearly state the 26c and under are not manufactured to comply with etrto standards if indeed they aren't.
Seems counterintuitive, to me anyway, that there is a different bead used on different sized tyres.
I am obviously no tyre engineer though.

warthog101 wrote: ↑

Wed May 11, 2022 11:23 am

pmprego wrote:Again... a wheel manufacturer is responsible for their wheels. a tire manufacturer is responsible for their tires. It's the customer that ahve to do the matching of these.
If a wheel is made according to etrto guidelines then it will accept a tire that is made according to the etrto guidelines.
Pirelli is clearly stating that their 28c tires are made according to the etrto guidelines and must be used according to the those same etrto guidelines. They are also saying that the 26c and below are NOT.

That seems like a good summary.

They could clearly state the 26c and under are not manufactured to comply with etrto standards if indeed they aren't.
Seems counterintuitive, to me anyway, that there is a different bead used on different sized tyres.
I am obviously no tyre engineer though.

It's probably not the tire bead but related with the pressure. To be etrto compliant, pressure cant go above 72.5psi. They probably think that the 26c and below require more than that in most cases thus making it not compliant.

pmprego wrote:

warthog101 wrote: ↑

Wed May 11, 2022 11:23 am

pmprego wrote:Again... a wheel manufacturer is responsible for their wheels. a tire manufacturer is responsible for their tires. It's the customer that ahve to do the matching of these.
If a wheel is made according to etrto guidelines then it will accept a tire that is made according to the etrto guidelines.
Pirelli is clearly stating that their 28c tires are made according to the etrto guidelines and must be used according to the those same etrto guidelines. They are also saying that the 26c and below are NOT.

That seems like a good summary.

They could clearly state the 26c and under are not manufactured to comply with etrto standards if indeed they aren't.
Seems counterintuitive, to me anyway, that there is a different bead used on different sized tyres.
I am obviously no tyre engineer though.

It's probably not the tire bead but related with the pressure. To be etrto compliant, pressure cant go above 72.5psi. They probably think that the 26c and below require more than that in most cases thus making it not compliant.

Not too sure.
They have the NOT compatible in capitals.

There are plenty of 25c tyres around that are compatible, so they are an outlier if that is the reason.

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