Pirelli P Zero TLR tubeless

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BalticSea
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2023 5:51 pm

by BalticSea

BigBoyND wrote:
Fri May 17, 2024 12:58 pm
BalticSea wrote:
Fri May 17, 2024 9:59 am
The thing is, both data sets are from lab tests with quite a few discrepancies, and they may be not necessarily representative of real world performance. Flat belt (instead of a drum) would be better for testing rolling resistance in a lab setting, but even such testing might show quite different result from real world.
Hysteresis is hysteresis. Some tests are better than others but all should provide similar ranking. There might be a small change in the precise order of similar tires, but the leaderboard will never flip upside down to put the P Zero near the top.
If anything, Corsa Pros are the biggest outlier, as it is near the top in both BRR and Aerocoach data, but dead last (and by a big margin) in that video.


But speaking of Aerocoach data, it is interesting. Clincher Power Cup measured faster than tubeless version

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CampagYOLO
Posts: 810
Joined: Thu May 06, 2021 3:58 pm

by CampagYOLO

BalticSea wrote:
Tue May 21, 2024 7:19 am
BigBoyND wrote:
Fri May 17, 2024 12:58 pm
BalticSea wrote:
Fri May 17, 2024 9:59 am
The thing is, both data sets are from lab tests with quite a few discrepancies, and they may be not necessarily representative of real world performance. Flat belt (instead of a drum) would be better for testing rolling resistance in a lab setting, but even such testing might show quite different result from real world.
Hysteresis is hysteresis. Some tests are better than others but all should provide similar ranking. There might be a small change in the precise order of similar tires, but the leaderboard will never flip upside down to put the P Zero near the top.
If anything, Corsa Pros are the biggest outlier, as it is near the top in both BRR and Aerocoach data, but dead last (and by a big margin) in that video.


But speaking of Aerocoach data, it is interesting. Clincher Power Cup measured faster than tubeless version
Clincher Power Cups also do well on BRR once you adjust for a latex tube and not a butyl one.

They're also cheap and have wider tread than the tubeless ones. The best option out there for people on tubes IMO

ice29
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:15 pm

by ice29

CampagYOLO wrote:
Tue May 21, 2024 8:11 am
They're also cheap and have wider tread than the tubeless ones. The best option out there for people on tubes IMO
Ah, is this true? I was considering tubeless ones, but still was a bit scared about the thread width (on 21mm internal rims)

meliboeus
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2022 11:45 am

by meliboeus

i don't know what's going on with pirelli lately. i like that they've relocated some of their manifacture in Italy and that they're launching new products, but for the love of god could they just figure a less confusing way of naming their tires? it's doing a disservice to their products, which I actually like--the products, I've had good experience so far with the cinturato and the p zero race tlr tires. curious to see the test results on these new tires as i need a set for the summer (currently of vittoria corsa pros). has anyone tried them yet?

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JayDee81
Posts: 423
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:45 pm
Location: Czech Republic

by JayDee81

meliboeus wrote:
Wed May 22, 2024 2:23 am
i don't know what's going on with pirelli lately. i like that they've relocated some of their manifacture in Italy and that they're launching new products, but for the love of god could they just figure a less confusing way of naming their tires? it's doing a disservice to their products, which I actually like--the products, I've had good experience so far with the cinturato and the p zero race tlr tires. curious to see the test results on these new tires as i need a set for the summer (currently of vittoria corsa pros). has anyone tried them yet?
Ask the Lidl Trek guys. They've been riding them for a few months already.

cleanneon98
Posts: 512
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:26 pm

by cleanneon98

The naming is very confusing indeed. I am considering trying these after my brown 28mm S TR wear out as I hear there are lots of other better tires out there, but no idea which ones are their top of the line tires before going to something super thin and fragile.

I hear rumors that Pirelli are going to start making "RSL" tires for Trek to replace their lackluster Bontrager line, so maybe the nomenclature will be simplified there as Bontrager's tire models are pretty intuitively named IMO. I also really hope they release a more tan version as I don't love the brown that comes now on some of the Pirellis
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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 13030
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

30mm P Zero Race TLR RS measurements out of the box

321g (claimed 310g)
76mm casing
30mm tread

Jaisen
Posts: 675
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:01 am

by Jaisen

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu May 23, 2024 7:36 am
30mm P Zero Race TLR RS measurements out of the box

321g (claimed 310g)
76mm casing
30mm tread
Rather disappointing, especially compared to Enve Raceday 29's, but let's see how they test on BRR. The 30mm tread seems the same as the Pirelli P Zero Race 700x28 tires. It's not quite as bad as Michelin levels but pretty bottom of the pack in terms of tread cover %.

jwiegand
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2021 2:28 am

by jwiegand

Yesterday I mounted the new P Zero Race TLR RS on my Zipp 303 Firecrest. Size 30mm. Probably the hardest tyres I've ever mounted on hooked and hookless rims, the new bead is quite stiff and the tyres seated with just a few pumps, pretty much like Goodyear tyres do (and imo they're the golden standard of how easy is to inflate a tubeless tyre).

Previous tyre it was a Pirelli P Zero Race TLR Speedcore in 30mm with over 8.200km of use :lol: and in comparison that tyre was a breeze to install.

BigBoyND
Posts: 1549
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 1:51 am
Location: Berlin, DE

by BigBoyND

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu May 23, 2024 7:36 am
30mm P Zero Race TLR RS measurements out of the box

321g (claimed 310g)
76mm casing
30mm tread
Looking at BRR's table, casing width doesn't correlate as much with WAM as I'd thought. Do you have a mounted WAM yet?

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 13030
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

BigBoyND wrote:
Thu May 30, 2024 6:40 am
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu May 23, 2024 7:36 am
30mm P Zero Race TLR RS measurements out of the box

321g (claimed 310g)
76mm casing
30mm tread
Looking at BRR's table, casing width doesn't correlate as much with WAM as I'd thought. Do you have a mounted WAM yet?

I should point out measuring casings and tread is difficult to get exact because of the curved shape of the tire post vulcanization. I try to flatten it out as much as I can without stretching the tire, but sometimes my measurements differ from Jarno’s by as much as a couple millimeters. In the past I used a tailor’s cloth tape measure, but this time I used calipers, and I felt that using the tape measure made it easier to measure the tire when flattened. Maybe I’ll remeasure with the tape…

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 13030
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Test fitted the tire on 23mm internal ENVEs and I agree with the earlier anecdote about mounting the tire…only Alex Honnold would bother installing these tires by hand. Easily seated with a track pump with some medium loud pings. The tread cap is indeed a bit disappointing to look at, especially when mounted to 23mm rims.

My earlier case+tread measurements were confirmed with a cloth tape measure.

Initial width at 60psi = 31.5mm

I won’t have final width measurements anytime soon because I decided to run the ENVE SES Racedays instead.

cleanneon98
Posts: 512
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:26 pm

by cleanneon98

Any updated feedback on the new tires? I'm still between the TLR RS (whatever the new one is) or a GP5k S TR in black. I was leaning towards a 28mm for both, but it seems like the Pirelli blows up 1mm narrower than the same size Continental. Any more comments on this narrow tread cap? I do like to corner hard so I don't want to be riding on sidewalls
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cleanneon98
Posts: 512
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:26 pm

by cleanneon98

Looking to gather a bit more feedback about Continental vs Pirelli but hopefully the new RS tire specifically. It's been hard to ever move away from Continentals because they seemed to do everything well, but I'm curious to experiment and maybe get a different (better) ride quality. If anyone moved between Continental GP5k STR and anything comparable from Pirelli I'd love to hear some feedback.

Wheels are Bontrager Aeolus RSL51, 31mm external and 23mm internal, with hooks. Currently running the tan 28mm GP5k S TR, weight 290g per tire and measure out to 31mm after break-in. I'm debating to replace them either with the black GP5k S TR (said to be faster and a little lighter) or the TLR RS. One of the things I thought I wanted was to get the tire to blow up around 30mm for a more aero interface with the wheel, but the 105% rule seems to not be completely rooted in fact so not sure if that is even something I should aim for.

Based on my reading here, the 28mm RS should blow up to around 29.5 initially and likely stretch out to 30mm with some riding, and the 30mm to around 31mm. The 28mm RS is around the same weight as the GP5k, the 30mm is very slightly heavier but not to a point of concern. I also recall reading that the actual tread on the 30mm is not much if at all wider than the 28mm so would only gain air volume but not more tread for cornering.

Last concern is on Pirelli charts, they only show WAM sizes for the 28mm up to a 21mm internal rim, and the 23mm internal rim is only shown with the 30mm tire. Is the 28mm Pirelli not recommended for a 23mm internal rim?
TREK Madone Gen 7 SLR - 7.43kg
TREK Fuel EX Gen 5 - overbuilt and overweight

BigBoyND
Posts: 1549
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 1:51 am
Location: Berlin, DE

by BigBoyND

While it's not listed in the table, there is a URL for a 35mm RS. Could be interesting.

https://www.pirelli.com/tyres/en-ww/bik ... -rs/35-622

Too bad BRR jumped the gun on the 35mm non-RS being unavailable, since now it's on a few sites.

Also made me notice that the 32mm RS is actually heavier than the 32mm non-RS, per Pirelli. How did they manage that?

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