Winspace Hyper

[C36]

Yeah, I don't wanna hijack this thread or anything, but I've used the Lún 60mm disc brake on my bike for a few months for testing - good value for money wheelset.

From few months ago I saw you tested the 65mm version of the hyper. Any feed back?


——————
2018: Cannondale SSevo2HM : 5860g
2000: R4000 caad5: junior bike restauration
1995: Indurain‘s Pinarello: restauration project

[one60]

would appreciate more input/feedback on the (rim) braking performance of these wheels. Also interested whether changing to a swiss stop or Campagnolo red pad offered any improvement in braking.

I got your email and will reply some of your qns here, let me know if theres anything else in particular you would like to know.

I have no problems braking on the rims, even in the wet. When wet you just need to know they just take a little longer to bite. I use lifeline blue pads they are fine.

I have 1 issue with the wheels (besides the fact that they are def not the most aero as claimed by hambini), they creak under power. both my wheels creak. I suspect it comes from the spokes rubbing each other, when i grab the crossed spokes i can get them to make a similar creak. I have not confirmed this yet, but when it rained on my last ride they stopped creaking (or i couldnt hear them thru the rain haha). ill lube them before my next ride and see if it stops.

all in all if the creak is easily remedied i think they are great wheels for the money if you are not crazy about every last aero watt. They saved 400g off the zipp404s disc and 300g off my yeoleo 60mm rimbrake wheels (bitex hubs + cx-rays).

Thanks for the informative post and recommendation. Interesting regarding the spoke rub as photos on the site are taken at an angle which seems to show the crossing spokes don't contact each other.

[ChinaCycling]

So, for me personally the 65s on paper don't make a lot of sense. The jump in weight doesn't seem to match the jump in aero gains. BUT. They look cooler. And, you can't deny that. Although they don't have the visible filament weave, they are still filament wound. If you live really flat or you're already a heavy (body weight) crit racer, I think the 65s make sense. But, for me (I weigh 50kgs and love to climb) I think the 50s are where it's at.

But... the 65s stay on my bike. haha. They just look cooler. If I was racing with any amount of climbs, I'd put 50s on.

P.S: I borrow all these wheels free of charge. This may make me bias. However, I think I'm aware of this bias and still saying it how it is. Everything above is my personal opinion.

Yeah, I don't wanna hijack this thread or anything, but I've used the Lún 60mm disc brake on my bike for a few months for testing - good value for money wheelset.

From few months ago I saw you tested the 65mm version of the hyper. Any feed back?


——————
2018: Cannondale SSevo2HM : 5860g
2000: R4000 caad5: junior bike restauration
1995: Indurain‘s Pinarello: restauration project

[Dan112]

would appreciate more input/feedback on the (rim) braking performance of these wheels. Also interested whether changing to a swiss stop or Campagnolo red pad offered any improvement in braking.

I got your email and will reply some of your qns here, let me know if theres anything else in particular you would like to know.

I have no problems braking on the rims, even in the wet. When wet you just need to know they just take a little longer to bite. I use lifeline blue pads they are fine.

I have 1 issue with the wheels (besides the fact that they are def not the most aero as claimed by hambini), they creak under power. both my wheels creak. I suspect it comes from the spokes rubbing each other, when i grab the crossed spokes i can get them to make a similar creak. I have not confirmed this yet, but when it rained on my last ride they stopped creaking (or i couldnt hear them thru the rain haha). ill lube them before my next ride and see if it stops.

all in all if the creak is easily remedied i think they are great wheels for the money if you are not crazy about every last aero watt. They saved 400g off the zipp404s disc and 300g off my yeoleo 60mm rimbrake wheels (bitex hubs + cx-rays).

Thanks for the informative post and recommendation. Interesting regarding the spoke rub as photos on the site are taken at an angle which seems to show the crossing spokes don't contact each other.

Yes very interesting about the spoke rubbing. I had a similar issue using carbon headset spacers. Swapped them out for alloy spacers and the creaking stopped.

Be interesting to know if it is the wheels if some oil stops the issue

[romanmoser]

The spokes nipples are external
but due to the spokes being carbon they still need to be trued from the inside
like with internal nipples
at least that what I see

I don't see how the carbon spokes can be more aero than new dtswissaerolite 2 etc
lighter, comfier, stiffer, more responsive well yes probably

Anyone has 25mm nominal width clinchers mounted on a front winspace 50 ?
would like to know if they don't come over the rim side and ruin aero transition ( 105% rule that's not a rule ) ?
Looks to me like they were designed with 23mm nominal tires that measures 25 26 more no ?
I know a 23mm measuring 25 26 is more aero but my roads are shite...

[hannawald]

I think the same, fantastic Hambini aero result was achieved by using 23mm tyre..it would be great to know how 25mm tyres measuring more like 27-28mm in real harm this..

[happydogww]

can confirm some lube where the spokes cross has eliminated creaks.

23c gp5000 measure 24.5mm
25c gp5000 measure 26.5mm

[Dan112]

can confirm some lube where the spokes cross has eliminated creaks.

23c gp5000 measure 24.5mm
25c gp5000 measure 26.5mm

Thanks for the reply good to hear its now resolved. I've also heard you can wrap some black electrical tape around one of the spokes which also solves the issue

[happydogww]

can confirm some lube where the spokes cross has eliminated creaks.

23c gp5000 measure 24.5mm
25c gp5000 measure 26.5mm

Thanks for the reply good to hear its now resolved. I've also heard you can wrap some black electrical tape around one of the spokes which also solves the issue

sorry have to update the creaking has come back, its hard to pin point as it seems to happen intermittently around 25-30kmh, at lowish pedal forces. It might not have been the spoke crossings, I think it might be the aluminium spoke ends in the hub. I forgot to bring a bottle of lube on my ride so was not able to test this suspicion

hoping to hear from other riders if they have this creaking issue too?

[rlanger]

can confirm some lube where the spokes cross has eliminated creaks.

23c gp5000 measure 24.5mm
25c gp5000 measure 26.5mm

Thanks for the reply good to hear its now resolved. I've also heard you can wrap some black electrical tape around one of the spokes which also solves the issue

sorry have to update the creaking has come back, its hard to pin point as it seems to happen intermittently around 25-30kmh, at lowish pedal forces. It might not have been the spoke crossings, I think it might be the aluminium spoke ends in the hub. I forgot to bring a bottle of lube on my ride so was not able to test this suspicion

hoping to hear from other riders if they have this creaking issue too?

Are your wheels version1 with the logo stickers over the clear coat or v2 with them under?

A small percentage of the v1 wheels apparently creek, mine included. Winspace believe it might be the ratchet ring, but my creeking was solved by replacing the freehub body. Although recently, I've been able to detect a reoccurance of a very faint clicking sound, but only during hard efforts out of the saddle, so not enough yet to be an issue.

If you have access to another freehub body, you might want to try changing that first.

Keep us up-to-date.

[ChinaCycling]

Gei in touch with Winspace. Sounds like you might be having the same problem rlanger was having. Get in touch, they'll get you sorted.

can confirm some lube where the spokes cross has eliminated creaks.

23c gp5000 measure 24.5mm
25c gp5000 measure 26.5mm

Thanks for the reply good to hear its now resolved. I've also heard you can wrap some black electrical tape around one of the spokes which also solves the issue

sorry have to update the creaking has come back, its hard to pin point as it seems to happen intermittently around 25-30kmh, at lowish pedal forces. It might not have been the spoke crossings, I think it might be the aluminium spoke ends in the hub. I forgot to bring a bottle of lube on my ride so was not able to test this suspicion

hoping to hear from other riders if they have this creaking issue too?

[happydogww]

Are your wheels version1 with the logo stickers over the clear coat or v2 with them under?

A small percentage of the v1 wheels apparently creek, mine included. Winspace believe it might be the ratchet ring, but my creeking was solved by replacing the freehub body. Although recently, I've been able to detect a reoccurance of a very faint clicking sound, but only during hard efforts out of the saddle, so not enough yet to be an issue.

If you have access to another freehub body, you might want to try changing that first.

Keep us up-to-date.

i have both, the rim version was decal under clearcoat, the disc was decal over clearcoat.

the disc wheel creaked more than the rim, but its hard to test without going on a proper ride because the creaks seem to start only after some time or maybe requires some time at a constant speed of 25-30kph. they creak around 150-200w but maybe thats when they tend to be travelling 25-30kph, so might be a resonance effect related to wheel rpm.

by ratchet ring do you mean the ring of teeth that the pawls engage into? so do u mean theres some movement at the interface between that ring and the hub body? if so, a new freehub shouldnt affect it i think

ill be lubing the spoke ends at the hub flange next to see if it solves the issue

[rlanger]

by ratchet ring do you mean the ring of teeth that the pawls engage into? so do u mean theres some movement at the interface between that ring and the hub body? if so, a new freehub shouldnt affect it i think

ill be lubing the spoke ends at the hub flange next to see if it solves the issue

Yes, that's the ratchet ring. Winspace sent me a tool to remove it, but unfortunately, I was unable to apply enough force to get it off.

It's possible that simply my attempt to remove it caused my creaking issues to stop, but I'm not sure because I changed my freehub body at the same time.

Regardless, I now have a virtually silent set of wheels, so I'm happy. They are such a pleasure to ride on.

[happydogww]

by ratchet ring do you mean the ring of teeth that the pawls engage into? so do u mean theres some movement at the interface between that ring and the hub body? if so, a new freehub shouldnt affect it i think

ill be lubing the spoke ends at the hub flange next to see if it solves the issue

Yes, that's the ratchet ring. Winspace sent me a tool to remove it, but unfortunately, I was unable to apply enough force to get it off.

It's possible that simply my attempt to remove it caused my creaking issues to stop, but I'm not sure because I changed my freehub body at the same time.

Regardless, I now have a virtually silent set of wheels, so I'm happy. They are such a pleasure to ride on.

I've done some more investigations,

I took the rimbrake wheel off and lubed all the spoke ends on the driveside flange, then I used a chain whip to torque the hub. I was able to make the wheel creak, but it wasn't very repeatable. It would creak at different amounts of torque, both on the application & removal of force. It would stop creaking, I would pull the spokes together with my hands then torque it again and it would creak more.

I then lubed all the nipples at the rim and torqued the wheel again. I could still get some creaks but couldnt get them consistent until I used my fingers to pull on one of the spokes near the nipple, with my palm still holding the chain whip to torque the wheel. It would creak on each pull. I took a video of this and tried to pinpoint where the creak was coming from, it sounded like it was coming from the nipple but it was hard to tell which. I then tried this same hold on different spokes and the creaks just stopped, even coming back to the same spoke that I was able to consistently get a creak. I also tried just torquing the wheel without pulling on a spoke like before and I can't get a creak out of the wheel anymore.

I can only guess that at least some of the creaking does originate from the nipples at the rim and it took some time for the lube to penetrate which eliminated the creaks.

I tried this same technique using the same casette on the disc brake wheel and was not able to get it to creak. To make it clear, both wheelsets were ridden twice and they both creaked. I then lubed the spoke crossings on both the rear wheels but have only ridden the rimbrake wheel since. This discbrake wheel has it spoke crossings lubed but hasn't been ridden since.

I used the same cassette to test 2 other wheels: a 60mm rimbrake yeoleo, cx-ray, bitex, no creaks. A discbrake Roval CLX32 interestingly did make some grinding noise (not loud creaks) which sounded like they came from the spoke crossings so I lubed the crossings and the noise was gone.

I'll have to ride the wheels again to see if they still creak, because I'm not able to apply radial load with this test.

I've learned some things about these wheels after working on them quite a bit:

1) They let more rainwater in than standard wheels because of how the spoke nipples work. Front wheel isn't as bad but back wheel sloshes with water.
2) The spoke "nipple" is fully internal so you need the tyre off to work on it... but you don't have the tool!
3) Theres no point supplying spare spokes if they dont supply the hex socket for the internal "nipple" nut. Its a non standard 5.3mm hex head. edit: actually it might be an M3 nut.

I've emailed winspace about the creaks and supplying me the spoke tool, will update with the reply but for now if you order the wheels make sure they give you the spoke tool.

[ChinaCycling]

2) The spoke "nipple" is fully internal so you need the tyre off to work on it... but you don't have the tool!
3) Theres no point supplying spare spokes if they dont supply the hex socket for the internal "nipple" nut. Its a non standard 5.3mm hex head. edit: actually it might be an M3 nut.

It's just a standard size. Park Tool SW-15 works fine. I experimented with the spoke tension on mine and used a SW-15 on the nipple head and the SW-22 to keep the outside of the nipple still. For anyone else thinking of experimenting, I'll save you the trouble, I ended up going back to the factory tension. I was gonna run lower tension because I'm a lighter rider, but it turns out I prefer the higher tension for sure.

Also, with the wheel off, you may get some sounds that you woldn't get when the wheel is on the bike. The hub is a bit more free to move around when it's not held compressed by a quick release or a thru-axle, so you may get sounds such as the freehub body moving in and out, as I doubt the torque you're applying is 100% perpendicular to the axle.

My 50mm disc set never made a sound. My 65mm prototype/test set had a sound that sounded like creaking and I thought it was the spokes rubbing, but it was solved by changing the freehub body. ( I guess the same as rlanger)

Also, what tires is everyone running? I was running the Pro One TT and was very happy but then switched to the regular Pro One and there's a lot less road buzz.