Vittoria Graphene 2.0

Wheels, Tires, Tubes, Tubeless, Tubs, Spokes, Hookless, Hubs, and more!

Moderator: robbosmans

Forum rules
The spirit of this board is to compile and organize wheels and tires related discussions.

If a new wheel tech is released, (say for example, TPU tubes, a brand new tire, or a new rim standard), feel free to start the discussion in the popular "Road". Your topic will eventually be moved here!
TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12455
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Ultimately Vittoria did claim in a marketing presentation that they were going after fast training tires, including the GP5K S TR. That tire is an outlier though. Nothing comes close to it in terms of Crr + all-around performance (grip, endurance, puncture protection, etc.) The Power Cup ends up cheating by being oversized with a woeful tread cap width. Everything else is 1.5-3W slower.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



cajer
Posts: 673
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:26 am

by cajer

Is there anything faster than a GP5k that's not a TT tire or the Power Cup?

Nickldn
Posts: 1865
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

cajer wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:14 pm
Is there anything faster than a GP5k that's not a TT tire or the Power Cup?
Having handled both the Vittoria Corsa Speed 2.0 TLR and Conti GP5000S TR, in terms of durability and tread thickness they are like night and day.

The fact that Conti could get the GP5000S TR to a similar level of RR as the Corsa Speed is quite frankly amazing.

We now need Vittoria to step up with a new Corsa G+.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg

Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg

SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12455
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Two punctures to flat on Corsa Speeds in the last two weeks. DynaPlug fixed the latest one, but the previous puncture was from a pretty large wooden shard that broke off inside the tire and created a crescent shaped 6mm cut. Two regular plugs got the leak slow enough to limp home, but it was bubbling overnight.

I guess I was just lucky with my previous stint on these tires.

StanleyM
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:25 pm

by StanleyM

Nickldn wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:34 pm
The fact that Conti could get the GP5000S TR to a similar level of RR as the Corsa Speed is quite frankly amazing.
From a Motorsports POV on bike tires.

It's likely from the tread compound!

They seem to be using a somewhat low grip / "harder" / ECO type compound like you might find on a Prius.

Look at the mediocre wet grip results for example.

StanleyM
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:25 pm

by StanleyM

Nickldn wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:34 pm
We now need Vittoria to step up with a new Corsa G+.
It's certainly doable.

For one they could significantly *REDUCE* Wet & Dry grip just as Continental deliberately does in the GP5000s.

BTW it is also possible to measure ride quality metrics.

Nickldn
Posts: 1865
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

StanleyM wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 2:49 am
Nickldn wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:34 pm
We now need Vittoria to step up with a new Corsa G+.
It's certainly doable.

For one they could significantly *REDUCE* Wet & Dry grip just as Continental deliberately does in the GP5000s.
Not sure the story is quite that simple with the Corsa G+. According to Vittoria this tyre has a harder (read fast) compound in the middle section and softer (slower) rubber towards the edges of the tread. I can see that putting the tyre on wide rims may increase RR a bit, as the softer edges could be in contact with the road.

I love my Corsa G+ tubs, they have truly prodigious cornering grip and a feeling of good RR. Not quite as good as a GP5000S though.

Let's see what the next Corsa G+ does, I still want it to feel like a race tire.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg

Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg

SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress

ViperFFM
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:11 am
Location: Frankfurt am Main,DE

by ViperFFM

cajer wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:14 pm
Is there anything faster than a GP5k that's not a TT tire or the Power Cup?
The "old" Gp 5000 TL has a marginally better RR while also having better puncture protection. The S TR is a signficant downgrade especially when it comes to pricing.
carbonLORD wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:23 am
I'm a CAT 3 Masters racer, not a dentist.

CampagYOLO
Posts: 705
Joined: Thu May 06, 2021 3:58 pm

by CampagYOLO

All the testing would suggest that the 5000 S TR doesn't have enough puncture protection to be a training tyre unlike the old 5000 TR.

ViperFFM
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:11 am
Location: Frankfurt am Main,DE

by ViperFFM

Exactly.

Currently on holiday in italy and managed to find a shop with the old 5000 TL in 25c; next season is saved.
carbonLORD wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:23 am
I'm a CAT 3 Masters racer, not a dentist.

StanleyM
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:25 pm

by StanleyM

Nickldn wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:45 am
StanleyM wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 2:49 am
Nickldn wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:34 pm
We now need Vittoria to step up with a new Corsa G+.
It's certainly doable.

For one they could significantly *REDUCE* Wet & Dry grip just as Continental deliberately does in the GP5000s.
Not sure the story is quite that simple with the Corsa G+. According to Vittoria this tyre has a harder (read fast) compound in the middle section and softer (slower) rubber towards the edges of the tread. I can see that putting the tyre on wide rims may increase RR a bit, as the softer edges could be in contact with the road.

I love my Corsa G+ tubs, they have truly prodigious cornering grip and a feeling of good RR. Not quite as good as a GP5000S though.

Let's see what the next Corsa G+ does, I still want it to feel like a race tire.
i go off of measured grip via accelerometer.

For rolling resistance, my braking R&D etc, the center of the tread is the dominant zone.

Nickldn
Posts: 1865
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

ViperFFM wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:48 am
cajer wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:14 pm
Is there anything faster than a GP5k that's not a TT tire or the Power Cup?
The "old" Gp 5000 TL has a marginally better RR while also having better puncture protection. The S TR is a signficant downgrade especially when it comes to pricing.
Seems like Conti had to 're-position' it's flagship bicycle race tyre by launching the GP5000S TR and discontinuing the GP5000TL. Else they'd lose money and prestige.

As we all know (ahem have been told) the GP5000S TR is a light tubless ready race tyre, sold at a significant premium to many competitors. Oh look there's also a new 'halo' product for TT.

On the other hand the GP5000TL was a heavy and robust training tyre. Who's gonna pay a premium for one of those? :D Oh it lasts for ages? How's that good for sales? :o

So yes Conti had no choice, they had to kill the GP5000TL. It didn't make marketing sense.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg

Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg

SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12455
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

I have not noticed significant durability issues with the S TR. I got 3700mi from a 25mm rear tire. The sidewalls have actually held up better than with my GP5K TLs. Only one premium tire I’ve tried has gotten more mileage, and that was 4100mi from a 30mm Corsa Control TLR. Not a fair comparison because the tread wear is spread out over a much larger tire patch.

AFAIK the reason why the GP5K TL was discontinued was because the dimensions weren’t ETRTO compliant. Neither the bead diameter/circumference nor the shape conformed to the standard.

StanleyM
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:25 pm

by StanleyM

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 9:02 pm
I have not noticed significant durability issues with the S TR. I got 3700mi from a 25mm rear tire.
Hard rubber helps durability AND rolling resistance. Other than all out stoppie-prone braking, cycling is a low g-force activity. Arguably Vittoria should cut their dry and wet grip to benefit rolling resistance and durability?
Screenshot 48.jpg

alanyu
Posts: 1503
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:10 pm

by alanyu

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 9:02 pm
I have not noticed significant durability issues with the S TR. I got 3700mi from a 25mm rear tire. The sidewalls have actually held up better than with my GP5K TLs. Only one premium tire I’ve tried has gotten more mileage, and that was 4100mi from a 30mm Corsa Control TLR. Not a fair comparison because the tread wear is spread out over a much larger tire patch.

AFAIK the reason why the GP5K TL was discontinued was because the dimensions weren’t ETRTO compliant. Neither the bead diameter/circumference nor the shape conformed to the standard.
Yeah, main reason Conti stopped producing TL is the incompatibility of hookless. Though they clearly said no hookless and put the label on the package, there are still stupid people trying to use it on hookless wheels.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Post Reply