Vittoria Graphene 2.0

Wheels, Tires, Tubes, Tubeless, Tubs, Spokes, Hookless, Hubs, and more!

Moderator: robbosmans

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The spirit of this board is to compile and organize wheels and tires related discussions.

If a new wheel tech is released, (say for example, TPU tubes, a brand new tire, or a new rim standard), feel free to start the discussion in the popular "Road". Your topic will eventually be moved here!
StanleyM
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:25 pm

by StanleyM

CampagYOLO wrote:
Sun Sep 11, 2022 8:02 am
I've ridden hose pipes with more grip than Gatorskins. Not much point comparing them with the kind of tyres most Weight weenies will be riding.
Well some Weight-Weenies like me take their 14# aluminum bike down rocky trails well (beyond gravel paths or dirt roads) or short cut thru the city (lotta glass, deep potholes). For those times a gator can help your odds at avoiding a flat in a harsh setting. For normal road biking I use "better" tires.

alanyu
Posts: 1503
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:10 pm

by alanyu

StanleyM wrote:
Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:27 pm
wheelsONfire wrote:
Sun Sep 11, 2022 8:24 am
StanleyM wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:48 pm
Nickldn wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:45 pm


Tyre heat cycles? It sounds like you're confusing high performance car race track tyres with bicycle tyres. Please don't, they are nothing alike.
Rubber ages. Affects grip, RR and more.

Rubber does not care if it is on a shelf, a car, or a bike.

Science!
Schwalbe Pro One TLE is very "grippy". It almost feels like it is a sticky tire. But, it tend to be perceived as faster after some usage.
First i was a bit, hm, it feels as to much grip/ sticky. But now they feel faster and have a great balance of speed and grip.
Per BRR the Pro One has extremely and unusually low wet grip. Mid 0.55G vicinity (yikes). This might put it in Last Place? Per BRR one of the old "Gators" has MORE wet grip than the newest GP5000s. If cycling ever requires higher grip levels the tire wars could really heat up.
I second that Pro One is grippy in reality, better than GP 5k TL. BRR grip tests on the surface that is away from the real life. Who the hell rides on ceramic tile with a rough texture? Also to your previous Q, the GP 5k TL I used last year in crits is somewhere around 800~1000 km old.

by Weenie


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User avatar
Nohands83
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:41 am
Location: Leeds, UK

by Nohands83

I think the difference is most people I know who use them as all-weather / winter tyre - given the wet grip results they don't really back up that application. Comparing them to 5000s isn't really apples for apples.
If you must use Conti, the 4seasons are a much better tyre for wet weather, shame they don't do a TL version yet.
FWIW I'll be using 30mm Corsa NEXT over this winter.

StanleyM
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:25 pm

by StanleyM

alanyu wrote:
Sun Sep 11, 2022 9:30 pm
StanleyM wrote:
Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:27 pm
wheelsONfire wrote:
Sun Sep 11, 2022 8:24 am
StanleyM wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:48 pm


Rubber ages. Affects grip, RR and more.

Rubber does not care if it is on a shelf, a car, or a bike.

Science!
Schwalbe Pro One TLE is very "grippy". It almost feels like it is a sticky tire. But, it tend to be perceived as faster after some usage.
First i was a bit, hm, it feels as to much grip/ sticky. But now they feel faster and have a great balance of speed and grip.
Per BRR the Pro One has extremely and unusually low wet grip. Mid 0.55G vicinity (yikes). This might put it in Last Place? Per BRR one of the old "Gators" has MORE wet grip than the newest GP5000s. If cycling ever requires higher grip levels the tire wars could really heat up.
I second that Pro One is grippy in reality, better than GP 5k TL. BRR grip tests on the surface that is away from the real life. Who the hell rides on ceramic tile with a rough texture? Also to your previous Q, the GP 5k TL I used last year in crits is somewhere around 800~1000 km old.
Yeah I have wondered about BBR's tile test. It would be nice to datalog actual bike grip in a safe manner more broadly.

StanleyM
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:25 pm

by StanleyM

Nohands83 wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:21 am
I think the difference is most people I know who use them as all-weather / winter tyre - given the wet grip results they don't really back up that application. Comparing them to 5000s isn't really apples for apples.
If you must use Conti, the 4seasons are a much better tyre for wet weather, shame they don't do a TL version yet.
FWIW I'll be using 30mm Corsa NEXT over this winter.
Per BRR, the Continental 4Season has *worse* wet weather grip than many, many Summer tires oriented towards warm / dry conditions.

I wonder if BRR has correlated their test tile results to datalogged tests on a bike on roads. You do have to be careful to be consistent...for instance concrete tends to have about 20% more grip potential than asphalt.

The thing about tire grip that many might be aware of...is that it is NOT a matter of simple friction as in µ and F=µN.

Grip ≠ Friction. Plus, there is at the limit behavior at slip angle / percent.

fizzaz
Posts: 274
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:02 pm

by fizzaz

There is no perfect grip test and my guess is that the tile represents a known quantity that is repeatable.

StanleyM
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:25 pm

by StanleyM

fizzaz wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:00 pm
There is no perfect grip test and my guess is that the tile represents a known quantity that is repeatable.
Well grip is surface and conditions and settings (like psi) dependent. So is rolling resistance for that matter.

However, BRRs ranking or ranges might still be quite useful.

For instance one of the 0.5 tires is likely to have huge trouble stopping alongside a bike with one of the 0.8 tires, dry or wet. That's an immense difference. The first tire would be at the limit while the other tire still has an ample reserve and could combine braking and cornering to a larger extent. The 0.5 is a bit below typical "stoppie / endo" levels too per my datalogger tests.

Per BRR a "hose pipe / bannana-skin" tire is actually grippier than quite a few "better" tires.

StanleyM
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:25 pm

by StanleyM

Example peek at Ride Quality. Logged at 25hz, same road, same path within a foot (painted lines for reference). Shown are Vertical Gs over time, so our baseline is 1G for gravity. Two different tire pressures, 6 minutes apart. You can see that adding 20 psi really jumped up the vertical forces you feel. You can sense that jiggly nature that comes in as you air up.

BTW I can log rolling resistance and aerodynamic drag too, net. Display it live as well, try out positioning strategies / compare mods, clothes...
Vertical Gs 72-95psi.jpg

StanleyM
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:25 pm

by StanleyM

Phone calc'd super-quickie view of Rolling Resistance from about 18 mph (not kmh) for a set distance datalogged via geotags at 25 hz, 5 GPS bands plus high speed 3 axis accelerometers & gyros. Guess what...the PSI changes show up just as expected and when the results are converted to RR, they coincide well with BRR's percent changes for the N.EXT at different psis. Same path on same road, same casual position. The "cushy" psi option slowed an extra 0.5 kmh due to the higher RR by the end of the coastdown distance of 391 feet. This required about 1/3 of a second more time than the high psi run.
Coastdown.jpg
Coast-Time.jpg
Coast-Map.jpg

Aeo
Posts: 668
Joined: Wed May 25, 2016 2:06 am

by Aeo

Willing to part ways with one Vittoria Corsa G2.0 TLR optimised for rolling resistance. Cheap shipping possible in EU :thumbup:
corsa.jpg
Giant TCR Adv Pro Disc '17 · BH Lynx Race Evo '19 · Seraph GR029 '21 · Canyon Inflite AL '14

snaxez
Posts: 311
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:14 pm
Location: Estonia

by snaxez

There are some available at r2bike. 28mm TLR ones were out of stock all summer.
https://r2-bike.com/VITTORIA-Tire-Corsa ... full-black

GaBa
Posts: 322
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:01 pm

by GaBa

What do you guys think, would you be willing to risk using Corsa Speed vs. regular Corsa for Maratona dles Dolomites in order to have less RR? Or is it too much of a risk?

User avatar
Mr.Gib
Posts: 5577
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Location: eh?

by Mr.Gib

IMO using Corsa Speed would be a terrible decision. I have used them as regular road tires and while there are as tough as any tt tire, they are still relatively fragile and the risk of punctures is high. You will have lots of other riders around you and you won't always be able to choose your own line. Although the roads in the Dolomites are mostly very good, they are not perfect. hitting a small rock or pothole could easily kill the tire. And if you puncture on a descent, very bad things might happen. Are you trying to win the Maratona? If not (and even if you are), there may be wiser ways to save watts. What bike and clothing? Aero optimized? Weight optimized?

My advice - get yourself some Conti 5000 TR. Plenty fast and reasonably durable. And if it's wet roads all day, something from Vittoria would be nice.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12455
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

I've run Corsa Speeds in races before and I probably won't in 2023 except for a small number of races on very nice roads.

LOWIEV
Posts: 203
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:03 pm

by LOWIEV

GaBa wrote:
Tue Dec 27, 2022 10:42 am
What do you guys think, would you be willing to risk using Corsa Speed vs. regular Corsa for Maratona dles Dolomites in order to have less RR? Or is it too much of a risk?
i wouldn't risk it. You can lose a lot more time with a flat tire than there is time to gain with the Corsa Speeds.
BTW: Kirchmair won La Marmotte on Continental 4Seasons tires... :noidea:

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

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