Apparently old Conti 5k TL is not grippy enough for local crits. I crashed out of the corner last year, and several people did this year.StanleyM wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 9:53 pmHard rubber helps durability AND rolling resistance. Other than all out stoppie-prone braking, cycling is a low g-force activity. Arguably Vittoria should cut their dry and wet grip to benefit rolling resistance and durability?TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 9:02 pmI have not noticed significant durability issues with the S TR. I got 3700mi from a 25mm rear tire.
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Vittoria Graphene 2.0
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How old were the tires (time and distance)? Grip degrades (first noticeable in lower temps & rain) as tires heat cycle. The clock is ticking once they are produced, even if not used. Higher grip tires tend to age out / harden faster than soft. So in general, for important stuff, load on just made tires.
AFAIK the main difference between the GP5000S TR and the GP5000TL is the TL is fully vulcanised and so does not need sealant to be airtight. Hence it is a Tubless tyre and not just Tubless Ready.alanyu wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 9:53 pmYeah, main reason Conti stopped producing TL is the incompatibility of hookless. Though they clearly said no hookless and put the label on the package, there are still stupid people trying to use it on hookless wheels.TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 9:02 pmI have not noticed significant durability issues with the S TR. I got 3700mi from a 25mm rear tire. The sidewalls have actually held up better than with my GP5K TLs. Only one premium tire I’ve tried has gotten more mileage, and that was 4100mi from a 30mm Corsa Control TLR. Not a fair comparison because the tread wear is spread out over a much larger tire patch.
AFAIK the reason why the GP5K TL was discontinued was because the dimensions weren’t ETRTO compliant. Neither the bead diameter/circumference nor the shape conformed to the standard.
The TR is not fully vulcanised and like many current tyres it needs sealant to be airtight. Not being fully vulcanised makes the TR lighter and has led to Conti changing the carcass, etc.
I am sure you are aware this has nothing at all to do with the tyre dimensions and compatibility with hookless wheels. There was nothing at all to stop Conti producing a new fully vulcanised TL2 with ETRTO compliant dimensions and full hookless compatibility. But then it'd still have been a training tyre.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress
Tyre heat cycles? It sounds like you're confusing high performance car race track tyres with bicycle tyres. Please don't, they are nothing alike.StanleyM wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:27 pmHow old were the tires (time and distance)? Grip degrades (first noticeable in lower temps & rain) as tires heat cycle. The clock is ticking once they are produced, even if not used. Higher grip tires tend to age out / harden faster than soft. So in general, for important stuff, load on just made tires.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress
Rubber ages. Affects grip, RR and more.Nickldn wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:45 pmTyre heat cycles? It sounds like you're confusing high performance car race track tyres with bicycle tyres. Please don't, they are nothing alike.StanleyM wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:27 pmHow old were the tires (time and distance)? Grip degrades (first noticeable in lower temps & rain) as tires heat cycle. The clock is ticking once they are produced, even if not used. Higher grip tires tend to age out / harden faster than soft. So in general, for important stuff, load on just made tires.
Rubber does not care if it is on a shelf, a car, or a bike.
Science!
?????? Rubber aging on bicycle tyres has nothing to do with heat cycles.StanleyM wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:48 pmRubber ages. Affects grip, RR and more.Nickldn wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:45 pmTyre heat cycles? It sounds like you're confusing high performance car race track tyres with bicycle tyres. Please don't, they are nothing alike.StanleyM wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:27 pmHow old were the tires (time and distance)? Grip degrades (first noticeable in lower temps & rain) as tires heat cycle. The clock is ticking once they are produced, even if not used. Higher grip tires tend to age out / harden faster than soft. So in general, for important stuff, load on just made tires.
Rubber does not care if it is on a shelf, a car, or a bike.
Science!
Fact!
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress
On that we will disagree.
The manufacuring process *alone* involves a few heat stages / vulcanization!!
Just sitting on a shelf, aging related to that process heat is changing the tire over time.
Continental simply chose an ECO type compound to help with rolling resistance. They chose to live with the lesser Dry and Wet grip associated with that. That was a wise move if cycling will not need more grip. If lots more grips was needed...up will go the RR watts.
Using a grippier compound in the center as Vittoria does, hurts rolling resistance a bit. But...over time they will lose some of that grip and gain some RR benefits.
I haven't many tires mounted for testing ATM, but I can say for sure that a N.EXT has worlds more grip than a 3/4 worn Gatorskins (datalogged). It also has lower RR but rubber alone is not the reason for that. The Gatorskin's penetration benefits (carcasss mostly) harms RR a bit.
Many tradeoffs.
Bear in mind that there don't seem to be many objective ride quality tests for bike tires, but there could be. That's another tradeoff and some may care a lot or not at all about ride quality.
Ideally use freshly produced tires forthwith if the best overall behavior matters. Don't go into a big event with 5 year old tires off the shelf / never-mounted. Cuz they degraded a bit from time alone, tracing back to the process heat from when they were produced - the timer keeps running. If you do have to store, UV and Ozone exposure don't help.
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Heat exposure, UV exposure, ozone exposure, etc. all lead to embrittlement in rubber.
Agree with this. Old tyres will exhibit cracking and of course other invisible damage, but that is after 10 - 20 years of storage.TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 12:28 amHeat exposure, UV exposure, ozone exposure, etc. all lead to embrittlement in rubber.
This particular conversation is about the grip of contemporary tyres the GP5000S TR and GP5000TL, see alanyu's post above. Unless one of these has been left out in very strong sunlight, or cooked, I'd expect most stock on shop shelves to be in good condition. Same for Corsa G+ 2.0.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress
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I've ridden hose pipes with more grip than Gatorskins. Not much point comparing them with the kind of tyres most Weight weenies will be riding.
- wheelsONfire
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Schwalbe Pro One TLE is very "grippy". It almost feels like it is a sticky tire. But, it tend to be perceived as faster after some usage.StanleyM wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:48 pmRubber ages. Affects grip, RR and more.Nickldn wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:45 pmTyre heat cycles? It sounds like you're confusing high performance car race track tyres with bicycle tyres. Please don't, they are nothing alike.StanleyM wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:27 pmHow old were the tires (time and distance)? Grip degrades (first noticeable in lower temps & rain) as tires heat cycle. The clock is ticking once they are produced, even if not used. Higher grip tires tend to age out / harden faster than soft. So in general, for important stuff, load on just made tires.
Rubber does not care if it is on a shelf, a car, or a bike.
Science!
First i was a bit, hm, it feels as to much grip/ sticky. But now they feel faster and have a great balance of speed and grip.
Bikes:
Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.
Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.
The datalogger does not care. It's just data without ads or agendas or moods.CampagYOLO wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 8:02 amI've ridden hose pipes with more grip than Gatorskins. Not much point comparing them with the kind of tyres most Weight weenies will be riding.
Per BRR the Pro One has extremely and unusually low wet grip. Mid 0.55G vicinity (yikes). This might put it in Last Place? Per BRR one of the old "Gators" has MORE wet grip than the newest GP5000s. If cycling ever requires higher grip levels the tire wars could really heat up.wheelsONfire wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 8:24 amSchwalbe Pro One TLE is very "grippy". It almost feels like it is a sticky tire. But, it tend to be perceived as faster after some usage.StanleyM wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:48 pmRubber ages. Affects grip, RR and more.Nickldn wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:45 pmTyre heat cycles? It sounds like you're confusing high performance car race track tyres with bicycle tyres. Please don't, they are nothing alike.StanleyM wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:27 pm
How old were the tires (time and distance)? Grip degrades (first noticeable in lower temps & rain) as tires heat cycle. The clock is ticking once they are produced, even if not used. Higher grip tires tend to age out / harden faster than soft. So in general, for important stuff, load on just made tires.
Rubber does not care if it is on a shelf, a car, or a bike.
Science!
First i was a bit, hm, it feels as to much grip/ sticky. But now they feel faster and have a great balance of speed and grip.
Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓ Broad Selection ✓ Worldwide Delivery ✓
www.starbike.com