Wheels, Tires, Tubes, Tubeless, Tubs, Spokes, Hookless, Hubs, and more!
Moderator: robbosmans
Forum rules
The spirit of this board is to compile and organize wheels and tires related discussions.
If a new wheel tech is released, (say for example, TPU tubes, a brand new tire, or a new rim standard), feel free to start the discussion in the popular "Road". Your topic will eventually be moved here!
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Jasonlelam
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:20 am
by Jasonlelam on Wed Apr 26, 2023 8:21 am
garbageman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:46 pm
I haven't had any of those issues on my Falcon Pro AR45 without tape. GP5000S TR 28c were easy to mount by hand. Beads seated with my regular floor pump with valve cores removed. I've completely deflated both tires a few times to top up sealant and the beads did not unseat. Always pumped back up without issue. The only issue I've had was one of the wheels did not hold air well upon initial set-up (losing 10-20psi in 24h IIRC). An additional 10-15mL Orange Seal and laying the wheel flat on each side for a few hours solved the problem.
aeroisnteverything wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 5:03 pm
I emailed LB about it, they said it's all normal. After a bit of an argument, I agreed to ship the wheels back to them for re-inspection at my own expense - but they found it all normal. They said that my valves were a bit clogged so there was not enough air flow to budge the tyre into the lock (which was fair - new valves did better) - but also fully admitted to the fact that tubeless tape was necessary in order to get tyres seated, at least used tyres.
I wonder if you've added a bit of your own color to their "admission," especially since it was "after a bit of an argument," and other customers have had different experiences. I plan on rotating my front tire to the rear soon. I'll report back if I run into any trouble getting it seated and inflated.
I would definitely choose no access holes again.
Occasionally, tapes may be a must. Some buddies working on bike shops say wear tires that are too loose might have problem in holding air at the early step of inflating (air escapes from the gap between rim and tire). You will need thick strips/tapes to reduce the space in beween the tire and rim so that the tire is streched and becomes tight enough as a new one to hold the air. So it is better not to use the tire with too much wear that would be dangerous for riding or holding air or other potential problems. Too tight tire - hard to mount, too loose tire - challenging to pump air up. Life is fair
But certainly it is nothing to do with the rim tubeless performance here in the scenario.
Take a new tire and definitely no tape is needed on "no access hole" rim....or it will also work to mount a tire and inflate it under a cold weather or in your room and turn on your AC to 18°C (the loose tire will become tight a bit
)
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Jasonlelam
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:20 am
by Jasonlelam on Wed Apr 26, 2023 10:16 am
Jasonlelam wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 8:21 am
garbageman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:46 pm
I haven't had any of those issues on my Falcon Pro AR45 without tape. GP5000S TR 28c were easy to mount by hand. Beads seated with my regular floor pump with valve cores removed. I've completely deflated both tires a few times to top up sealant and the beads did not unseat. Always pumped back up without issue. The only issue I've had was one of the wheels did not hold air well upon initial set-up (losing 10-20psi in 24h IIRC). An additional 10-15mL Orange Seal and laying the wheel flat on each side for a few hours solved the problem.
aeroisnteverything wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 5:03 pm
I emailed LB about it, they said it's all normal. After a bit of an argument, I agreed to ship the wheels back to them for re-inspection at my own expense - but they found it all normal. They said that my valves were a bit clogged so there was not enough air flow to budge the tyre into the lock (which was fair - new valves did better) - but also fully admitted to the fact that tubeless tape was necessary in order to get tyres seated, at least used tyres.
I wonder if you've added a bit of your own color to their "admission," especially since it was "after a bit of an argument," and other customers have had different experiences. I plan on rotating my front tire to the rear soon. I'll report back if I run into any trouble getting it seated and inflated.
I would definitely choose no access holes again.
Occasionally, tapes may be a must. Some buddies working on bike shops say wear tires that are too loose might have problem in holding air at the early step of inflating (air escapes from the gap between rim and tire). You will need thick strips/tapes to reduce the space in beween the tire and rim so that the tire is streched and becomes tight enough as a new one to hold the air. So it is better not to use the tire with too much wear that would be dangerous for riding or holding air or other potential problems. Too tight tire - hard to mount, too loose tire - challenging to pump air up. Life is fair
But certainly it is nothing to do with the rim tubeless performance here in the scenario.
Take a new tire and definitely no tape is needed on "no access hole" rim....or it will also work to mount a "too loose" tire and inflate it under a cold weather or in your room and turn on your AC to 18°C (the loose tire will become tight a bit
)
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aeroisnteverything
- Posts: 902
- Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:43 pm
by aeroisnteverything on Wed Apr 26, 2023 10:56 am
^^^ Am using Conti 5000 S TR. Conti TLs are tighter, so I would not be surprised if those were better for these rims.
When new, tires seat fine. When used and stretched, they mount and dismount
way to easily, and without rim tape the air just escapes through the sides. I could not even seat them with a compressor without rim tape. And when deflated, the tyres would just come off the bead lock at the slightest perturbance. Also, when I tried to mount Vittoria Corsa Speed on these rims, they would not moutn at all, compressor or otherwise, with or without tape. They were just too loose. My theory was that this meant the rims were out of spec - but LB insisted otherwise... and what can I do except complain on a forum?
Am happy to see that others don't have the same experience, but I find these rims to be not so great as tubeless usage goes. If these were hookless, I would definitely be worried about blowout risk and would not ride them tubeless. As it is, I think the critical part of tubeless safety (as well as the ease of roadside repair) is how well the bead lock retains a fully deflated tire, and these are... not the best as far as that goes.
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emotive
- Posts: 615
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:40 am
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
by emotive on Wed Apr 26, 2023 12:12 pm
I have Falcon WR65 without rim holes. Previously I had Falcon Pro WR50 with rim holes.
I was running Vittoria Corsa G2.0 TLR 28 and now GP5000S TR 28. The Corsa were not as tight as the GP5K but neither have been loose. I top up sealant through the valve so don’t unseat the bead. Maybe that contributes to me not having an issue with bead stretch over the age of the tyre?
I mounted the GP5000 with just a floor pump and they held air overnight without sealant. For me the LB rim profile seems perfect for the GP5000TL.
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Mr.Gib
- Posts: 5611
- Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
- Location: eh?
by Mr.Gib on Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:37 am
aeroisnteverything wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 10:56 am
And when deflated, the tyres would just come off the bead lock at the slightest perturbance.
Just recieved a set of WR38 Falcon Pro rims (which will be built onto I9 hubs for my wife's gravel bike). Dry mounted Michelin Power Gravel tires on them to test WAM. Required 100 psi to get them to seat. And then very difficult to get off. I could get one side off with my thumbs, but I needed plyers to get the other side off.
And on my WR50's both 28mm and 30mm 5000TR seated nicely with a track pump. Not taken them off so can't comment on bead retention.
I suspect this is a tire problem. The track record of good tire fit strongly indicates that Light Bicycle is in better control of their tolerances than this negative report suggests.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.
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aeroisnteverything
- Posts: 902
- Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:43 pm
by aeroisnteverything on Fri Apr 28, 2023 9:22 am
Mr.Gib wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:37 am
aeroisnteverything wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 10:56 am
And when deflated, the tyres would just come off the bead lock at the slightest perturbance.
Just recieved a set of WR38 Falcon Pro rims (which will be built onto I9 hubs for my wife's gravel bike). Dry mounted Michelin Power Gravel tires on them to test WAM. Required 100 psi to get them to seat. And then very difficult to get off. I could get one side off with my thumbs, but I needed plyers to get the other side off.
And on my WR50's both 28mm and 30mm 5000TR seated nicely with a track pump. Not taken them off so can't comment on bead retention.
I suspect this is a tire problem. The track record of good tire fit strongly indicates that Light Bicycle is in better control of their tolerances than this negative report suggests.
I don't think it's the tyres because I tested different ones. The LBs are definitely smaller than my Rovals - with the same tyre (new or used), it's much easier to get the tyres on and off, and there are no issues with tyre inflation on Rovals vs LBs. And like I said, even LB itself while testing my specific rims said that they needed to add rim tape in order to inflate the tyres. They just said this is normal. New tyres are fine without rim tape; used tyres need rim tape to re-seat.
So if everyone else is ok, perhaps I just got a bum pair of rims. Unlucky. Sh1t happens. The downside is that LB would not acknowledge that this is a tolerance issue.
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aeroisnteverything
- Posts: 902
- Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:43 pm
by aeroisnteverything on Fri Apr 28, 2023 1:50 pm
I have the 565 (so that's 1cm deeper), have ridden them in windy conditions, and have nothing negative to say about cross wind performance. I feel a bit more sidewind pressure compared to Roval Rapide, but not much, and it feels predictable.
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jlok
- Posts: 2411
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am
by jlok on Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:00 pm
Anyone has tried Power Cup 25c on AR45? What is the width as measured?
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10
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NHWhites
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:24 pm
- Location: New England
by NHWhites on Sun Apr 30, 2023 11:19 pm
LB WR38 Falcon Pro, DT240exp, Sapim CXRay, drain holes, no access holes...1,367 grams.
Mounted Panaracer GK Slick plus 32c, used tire bead jack for last couple centimeters.
Could not inflate with floor pump, used air compressor, took a few tries on one while the other popped right into place.
2oz orange seal, Held air no problem.
200 miles road and gravel (some rough stuff too) so far and I have to say the wheel and tire combo has been great.
Definely a slower tire than a fast race slick but I wanted some extra puncture protection.
I wanted to check the sealant level yesterday and realized I could not use my KOM syringe to draw out the sealant as the valve they shipped with the rims is too narrow further down to allow the syringe tube to slide all the way to the tire.
I took the opportunity to see if I could release one side of the tire by the valve and when I let the air out the bead slid down easily with a little push. I think if I had to throw in a tube if a puncture does not seal, I should be able to do it with tire levers now that the bead slides down easily. I was able to use a floor pump to re-seat the tire and it is holding air again.
Pretty happy with the wheel and tire combo and use it on both my Topstone and Aethos.
Cheers
2021 Specialized Aethos Pro Ultegra Di2
2019 Cannondale Topstone AL 105
2011 Cervelo R3 Rival
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warthog101
- Posts: 917
- Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:05 am
by warthog101 on Mon May 01, 2023 5:23 am
aeroisnteverything wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 9:22 am
I don't think it's the tyres because I tested different ones. The LBs are definitely smaller than my Rovals - with the same tyre (new or used), it's much easier to get the tyres on and off, and there are no issues with tyre inflation on Rovals vs LBs. And like I said, even LB itself while testing my specific rims said that they needed to add rim tape in order to inflate the tyres. They just said this is normal. New tyres are fine without rim tape; used tyres need rim tape to re-seat.
So if everyone else is ok, perhaps I just got a bum pair of rims. Unlucky. Sh1t happens. The downside is that LB would not acknowledge that this is a tolerance issue.
My understanding is the carbon rims are formed on a mould. It is hard to see how the circumference would end up being undersized given the mould forms the circumference. It would need to be undersized. An oversized wheel would seem more likely if anything.
Multiple tyres on my no spoke hole, hookless, WR50s seated without issue.
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aeroisnteverything
- Posts: 902
- Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:43 pm
by aeroisnteverything on Mon May 01, 2023 8:51 am
warthog101 wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 5:23 am
aeroisnteverything wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 9:22 am
I don't think it's the tyres because I tested different ones. The LBs are definitely smaller than my Rovals - with the same tyre (new or used), it's much easier to get the tyres on and off, and there are no issues with tyre inflation on Rovals vs LBs. And like I said, even LB itself while testing my specific rims said that they needed to add rim tape in order to inflate the tyres. They just said this is normal. New tyres are fine without rim tape; used tyres need rim tape to re-seat.
So if everyone else is ok, perhaps I just got a bum pair of rims. Unlucky. Sh1t happens. The downside is that LB would not acknowledge that this is a tolerance issue.
My understanding is the carbon rims are formed on a mould. It is hard to see how the circumference would end up being undersized given the mould forms the circumference. It would need to be undersized. An oversized wheel would seem more likely if anything.
Multiple tyres on my no spoke hole, hookless, WR50s seated without issue.
Mate, what are we debating, exactly? I don't really know what has led to my issue, but it's an issue. Or are you trying to say that in fact I have no issue and am hallucinating?
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warthog101
- Posts: 917
- Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:05 am
by warthog101 on Mon May 01, 2023 11:01 am
aeroisnteverything wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 8:51 am
warthog101 wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 5:23 am
aeroisnteverything wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 9:22 am
I don't think it's the tyres because I tested different ones. The LBs are definitely smaller than my Rovals - with the same tyre (new or used), it's much easier to get the tyres on and off, and there are no issues with tyre inflation on Rovals vs LBs. And like I said, even LB itself while testing my specific rims said that they needed to add rim tape in order to inflate the tyres. They just said this is normal. New tyres are fine without rim tape; used tyres need rim tape to re-seat.
So if everyone else is ok, perhaps I just got a bum pair of rims. Unlucky. Sh1t happens. The downside is that LB would not acknowledge that this is a tolerance issue.
My understanding is the carbon rims are formed on a mould. It is hard to see how the circumference would end up being undersized given the mould forms the circumference. It would need to be undersized. An oversized wheel would seem more likely if anything.
Multiple tyres on my no spoke hole, hookless, WR50s seated without issue.
Mate, what are we debating, exactly? I don't really know what has led to my issue, but it's an issue. Or are you trying to say that in fact I have no issue and am hallucinating?
No. I just think it more likely for the tyres to be oversized.
It seems difficult for the circumference of the wheels to be undersized given they are manufactured on a mould that forms the circumference.
Perhaps the carbon layup would need to be light on. I am no engineer.