Bora WTO

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The spirit of this board is to compile and organize wheels and tires related discussions.

If a new wheel tech is released, (say for example, TPU tubes, a brand new tire, or a new rim standard), feel free to start the discussion in the popular "Road". Your topic will eventually be moved here!
usr
Posts: 1021
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:58 pm

by usr

I'd consider 45s too deep for those "I can't predict how the wind will be two weeks from now" occasions, and all other times are either days in the category of 60s are fine or in the category of 45s are still tolerable, but 33s would be preferable. To my eyes, 45s are a weird compromise that might actually be better served with two sets of cheaper wheels.

Regarding Hyperion vs 33, I just stumbled across a weird detail in the fine print: current WTO seem to impose lower limits on maximum pressure than Hyperions, so people who don't go all in on the wider is better thing and happen to be at the upper end of the rider weight limit might actually end up more aero on hyperions, if WTO force them onto wider tires. Frontal area matters, a lot.

Nickldn
Posts: 2011
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

usr wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2024 10:54 pm
I'd consider 45s too deep for those "I can't predict how the wind will be two weeks from now" occasions, and all other times are either days in the category of 60s are fine or in the category of 45s are still tolerable, but 33s would be preferable. To my eyes, 45s are a weird compromise that might actually be better served with two sets of cheaper wheels.
I have ridden the previous gen 19mm IW WTO 45's shod with 25mm GP5000S TRs in some pretty sketchy cross wind situations. They are for some unknown reason extremely stable and don't exhibit strong pulls on the bars even in gusty conditions/oncoming lorries. In fact they are much better than older shallower wheels I have used in the past.

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de zwarten
Posts: 909
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:32 pm
Location: belgium

by de zwarten

I mostly do fast flat group rides, many of them on good tarmac, and in weekends I tend to ride longer, often on a bit of rougher pavement with some hills.
I max. go once a year to the mountains and have other options for mountain wheels (but that would be rim brake). I'm currently riding rim brake 50s and 80s (most of all 80s, also with some wind) and feel like I need laterally stiff wheels as I'm often pushing >1000W, but I also have quite some kilos so definitely not a clmber.
The 33s feel like a compromise (also after reading some other feedback on here) so I'm leaning towards 45 at minimum, but given my current use of 80s without too many issues and given I truly appreciate the added stiffness of 80s when sprinting, I'm inclined to go for 60s as I reckon they feel stiffer, and given the C23 are quite a bit lighter than the 'old' model (WTO 33 is about the same weight as WTO 60 C23), I am probably going to buy the WTO 60 C23 in the next couple of weeks.

Nickldn
Posts: 2011
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

It sounds like 60s are ideal for you. If you do lots of fast rides at high power you get full use of the extra watt savings the deep wheels offer.

I'd say you'd find the 33's definitely won't do what you want and chances are you'd be frustrated with them very quickly. They'll be put to the back of the garage.

I find the 45's a good all round wheel, but they do not give that extra boost you find with deep wheels on fast 45kph plus rides.

ParisCarbon
Posts: 1946
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

On my Tarmac SL6 rim , I often swap between WTO 33 and WTO 60 (I did the CULT mod to both)
Where I am gets extremely windy (summer if its 80 or more out, gauranteed south wind at 30G50 or 40G60 kmh with no break from it)
I often use the 33s in those conditions, they are a fast wheel still in my opinion... you can tell the 60 is a faster wheel, but the 33 is nothing to laugh about in my opinion.. I never went with the 45s being in pancake flat land, I didnt need the compromise of something that was good for all terrain so to say.. I got a good price on the 33s and like I said, love them in those winds .. especially the open prairie crosswinds...

CustomMetal
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Posts: 1355
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:14 pm
Location: UK

by CustomMetal

ParisCarbon wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2024 11:17 pm
On my Tarmac SL6 rim , I often swap between WTO 33 and WTO 60 (I did the CULT mod to both)
Where I am gets extremely windy (summer if its 80 or more out, gauranteed south wind at 30G50 or 40G60 kmh with no break from it)
I often use the 33s in those conditions, they are a fast wheel still in my opinion... you can tell the 60 is a faster wheel, but the 33 is nothing to laugh about in my opinion.. I never went with the 45s being in pancake flat land, I didnt need the compromise of something that was good for all terrain so to say.. I got a good price on the 33s and like I said, love them in those winds .. especially the open prairie crosswinds...
Whats the 'Cult Mod'? I have some WTO45 rim brakes incoming so interested
Allegra- Steel Lugs TBC
Alya- Ti Climbing TBC
Bertha- TT 9.8kg
Matilda - Ti/Carbon Race TBC
Perdita- Ti Turbo bike 8kg
Serenity- Ti Gravel 9.5kg/8.9kg
Verity- Ti Aero 8.2kg


All weights with pedals,cages & garmin mount

usr
Posts: 1021
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:58 pm

by usr

CustomMetal wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2024 11:36 am
Whats the 'Cult Mod'? I have some WTO45 rim brakes incoming so interested
Replacing regular bearing runs with compatible spares for a higher price range wheel that are cronitect steel instead of whatever steel Campag uses in the mid range. (or replacing runs and ballls, is you start below "USB")

It's why we need to be careful to not spend too much time staring at the Campagnolo spare parts catalogue PDFs 😅

ParisCarbon
Posts: 1946
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

usr wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2024 12:05 pm
CustomMetal wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2024 11:36 am
Whats the 'Cult Mod'? I have some WTO45 rim brakes incoming so interested
Replacing regular bearing runs with compatible spares for a higher price range wheel that are cronitect steel instead of whatever steel Campag uses in the mid range. (or replacing runs and ballls, is you start below "USB")

It's why we need to be careful to not spend too much time staring at the Campagnolo spare parts catalogue PDFs 😅
Yes, as quoted its the replace with the treated cups and cones.. they do spin much more free... its an easy mod to do, but be warned you either need to get the tools to do it properly (which isnt cheap) or find a good shop (with the correct legit tools) it involves punching out the cups and pressing the new ones in... also beware if you do this you need to watch the front spindle.. alot of people make the mistake of taking 2 opposing 5mm allen wrenches and trying to get the front axle out.. what you really need to do is have to very flat metal bars and put those on the cone of the front wheel in a vice, and then crank the top 5mm ed cap off... not doing this can lead to the purchase of a new axle...

theOrtherion
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:47 pm

by theOrtherion

morrisond wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2024 7:15 pm
Kurt1980 wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2024 5:38 pm
Edited... looks like you can do 25mm tyres on a 23mm IW rim. Just fits into to ETRTO standards, so I stand corrected there.

However, having the wrong width on the advertisement for a new product with all the hype is kinda embarrassing.

Too much red wine in the pasta sauce....
From Campy on BikeRadar "The rims have a teardrop shape (when combined with a tyre), which Campagnolo says has been aerodynamically optimised and can fit “both wide gravel tyres and thinner road tyres” from 25 to 48mm. The brand specifically recommends running 28 to 35mm tyres on the Bora wheels."

Confusing but it sounds like they are good with starting at 25mm. 28 to 35 might be optimal for Aero. I mounted up some 32mm GP5 Clinchers on my Fulcrum Speed 57's (with presumably the same 23id rim shape and they form a pretty slippery looking shape - barely sticking out.

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/campagno ... lset-range
How do your Fulcrum 57 behave on crosswinds? Do you feel the wind a lot?

smokva
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:13 pm

by smokva

Nickldn wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2024 11:13 pm
I have ridden the previous gen 19mm IW WTO 45's shod with 25mm GP5000S TRs in some pretty sketchy cross wind situations. They are for some unknown reason extremely stable and don't exhibit strong pulls on the bars even in gusty conditions/oncoming lorries. In fact they are much better than older shallower wheels I have used in the past.
I second that...my WTO 60 19mm are really very stabile on crosswinds....I never felt gust wind hitting me on wto 60 like i used to feel with some other wheels. However I still havent loose fear to descend fatster than 60ish km/h on them because i still dont belive that they can be so stabile :noidea:

jlok
Posts: 2514
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

It's been a while since release. Any user feedback for the Ultra WTO 60 C23?
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

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MDecius
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:50 pm

by MDecius

I am eagerly waiting a review but haven't seen much out there yet.

Any news by the way on whether they will bring the C23 internal width to rim brakes or the previous C19s will be the last rim brake Boras? I have seen that some brands like HED and Winspace have released C21 rim brake wheels with outer diameters of ~28mm, so I am wondering if that is the reasonable upper limit for internal width on rim brake wheels.
Road - Time Alpe d'Huez 01 rim
All-road - Diverge Elite DSW '16 disc

usr
Posts: 1021
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:58 pm

by usr

So I've finally found the reason for the brake pulsing I've lived with for at least a year (yesterday I've experienced it in the rain where it gets unbearable), turn's out the rim has widened by a solid 0.5 mm. Can't really be from any other reason than overheating. Surface looks fine, but that's of little consolation.

Has anyone ever done a rim replacement on WTO? A part number exists, but considering the hassle with momag I'd be surprised if it was ever worth the trouble?

mazador
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:25 am

by mazador

usr wrote:
Sun May 26, 2024 8:53 pm
So I've finally found the reason for the brake pulsing I've lived with for at least a year (yesterday I've experienced it in the rain where it gets unbearable), turn's out the rim has widened by a solid 0.5 mm. Can't really be from any other reason than overheating. Surface looks fine, but that's of little consolation.

Has anyone ever done a rim replacement on WTO? A part number exists, but considering the hassle with momag I'd be surprised if it was ever worth the trouble?
Cooked a front rim on Bora wto 45s a few years back. Iirc they may have been out of warranty? Would need to check the dates exactly. Campagnolo Europe took care of me, had the local distributor swap the rims out.

by Weenie


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dannyperish
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 12:22 pm

by dannyperish

I found the old boras 45 DB is very unstable compared to regular box wheels (r460) in strong crosswinds on steep descents at speeds above 60km/h - it can be very scary and I feel no confidence at all
My weigh is just 54kg - its a factor, but the difference with box wheels is dramatic

On the flat I have no problems with any wind

is it worth to get new version wto for stability on descents in crosswinds? although I read that they improved stability by 80%? its also lighter and optimized for 28m tire, but dunno if I need it with my weight (feel ok with 25, but 28 is better for cornering), and its cost ofc

80-90% of the time I ride rolling terrains or flat without issues, and the rest is for mountains with deep gradients; I dont race and love aesthetics of bora 45mm wheels btw

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