Bora WTO

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GaBa
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:01 pm

by GaBa

ichobi wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:20 pm
jdecraene85 wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:32 am
ThunderJack07 wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2024 10:16 pm
Just received the new Bora WTO 60, 1504g with Shimano freehub and tubeless valves.
That's a bit disappointing, but the launch weight claims were a bit suspicious tbh... Less tempted now :)
Oow, that's 100g over the mark. (Claimed 1395).
That's claimed for Ultra, regular model is claimed at 1460 g. So 44 g over the mark but I do not know whether claimed weight includes tubeless valves or not?

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jdecraene85
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by jdecraene85

GaBa wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:25 pm
ichobi wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:20 pm
jdecraene85 wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:32 am
ThunderJack07 wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2024 10:16 pm
Just received the new Bora WTO 60, 1504g with Shimano freehub and tubeless valves.
That's a bit disappointing, but the launch weight claims were a bit suspicious tbh... Less tempted now :)
Oow, that's 100g over the mark. (Claimed 1395).
That's claimed for Ultra, regular model is claimed at 1460 g. So 44 g over the mark but I do not know whether claimed weight includes tubeless valves or not?
Good spot, you're right. Read too fast.
That makes it already look a little better.
Claimed weight is usually with SRAM freehub and without valves.
Valves maybe 20 g? Don't know the weight difference between hubs.

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

jdecraene85 wrote: Claimed weight is usually with SRAM freehub and without valves.
Doubtful. More likely they quote for N3W.


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ThunderJack07
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:31 pm

by ThunderJack07

ichobi wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:20 pm
jdecraene85 wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:32 am
ThunderJack07 wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2024 10:16 pm
Just received the new Bora WTO 60, 1504g with Shimano freehub and tubeless valves.
That's a bit disappointing, but the launch weight claims were a bit suspicious tbh... Less tempted now :)
Oow, that's 100g over the mark. (Claimed 1395).
You are confusing with the Ultra, the non-Ultra WTO was claimed at 1460g. Not sure if the claimed weight is with N3W freehub or not and if N3W is any lighter than the shimano freehub. Also not sure if they include the tubeless valves in that claimed weight... One final point to mention is that the wheels come with the disc rotor lockrings which is usually not the case on other wheels, two standard shimano center lock lockrings weight 16g, my set of old tubeless valves for a 50mm wheel were 12g. So the way I see it is 1504g minus 16g for lockrings minus say 14g for tubeless valves and you end-up at 1474g so not far off claimed weight.
Anyway that's still lighter than Roval rapides clx2 claimed at 1520g (with tubeless tape and valves) despite a 10mm deeper rim and 6(!!) more spokes on the front wheel for the standard WTO. Compared to Enve 4.5, they now claim something like 1430g with their new hubs, also 24 spokes front and rear but 10mm shallower at the front and 4mm shallower at the back compared to the standard WTO 60... They are also cheaper than both the Roval's and Enve's
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ichobi
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by ichobi

I read too fast thought that was the ultra wto. That’s not far off the mark. I think campag always claim weight with nsw free hub.


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usr
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Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:58 pm

by usr

jdecraene85 wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:26 pm
GaBa wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:25 pm
ichobi wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:20 pm
jdecraene85 wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:32 am


That's a bit disappointing, but the launch weight claims were a bit suspicious tbh... Less tempted now :)
Oow, that's 100g over the mark. (Claimed 1395).
That's claimed for Ultra, regular model is claimed at 1460 g. So 44 g over the mark but I do not know whether claimed weight includes tubeless valves or not?
Good spot, you're right. Read too fast.
That makes it already look a little better.
Claimed weight is usually with SRAM freehub and without valves.
Valves maybe 20 g? Don't know the weight difference between hubs.
I kind of doubt that Bora claimed weight would be with a Sram freehub? And certainly not including valves, perhaps including bearing grease.

What I do suspect is that some of the difference between WTO classic and WTO C23 is the difference between traditional FHB and N3W FHB (n3w without the compat adapter)

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de zwarten
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by de zwarten

Hi all, I'm having a hard time chosing between:
1. Bora WTO 33 DB with 19mm inner rim width, 1485g (around 1250 euro).
2. Bora WTO 35 DB C23 with 23mm inner rim width, 1370g (around 2250 euro).
3. Bora WTO 45 DB C23 with 23mm inner rim width, weighing 1405g (around 2250 euro).

As you can see, I can get a pretty good deal on the 'old' 'narrow' WTO33 DB.
The new C23 is lighter, wider, but approx. 1000 euro more expensive (prices will probably go down a bit as they're just launched, but I won't hope for it).
I included the 45 DB C23 as it's as lighter than the old 33 DB, it's the same price as the 35 DB C23 and I am very comfortable riding wheels with high rims (so if the new version is a no-brainer, I would probably opt for higher rims).

I am currently riding 25mm tires on either C15 (yes, that old) or C17 rims, and I am fairly comfortable with both set-ups, and I already notice a big improvement going from C15 to C17 with 25mm. I am now looking for a do-it-all wheelset for my new disc bike (Giant TCR which I am trying to get lighter), and will probably use the wheels for all weather, many years and about 5K a year. I do not race (at least not with this bike), but I ride hard. I have an aerobike as well so this bike is for longer rides with more hills (and some cobbles, think Tour of Flanders kind of cobbles). I would mount 28mm if buying the 'old' 33 DB, and maybe even 30mm if I go for the C23 version.

While I could say money is no issue, I would rather not spend more than I need to.

Is it a no-brainer to go for the C23, or is it more of a fine balance / personal preference and would the 'old' 33 be good enough to ride and not regret missing out on something?

Input / experiences are greatly appreciated, especially by those having ridden both.

jlok
Posts: 2516
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

de zwarten wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2024 8:41 am
Hi all, I'm having a hard time chosing between:
1. Bora WTO 33 DB with 19mm inner rim width, 1485g (around 1250 euro).
2. Bora WTO 35 DB C23 with 23mm inner rim width, 1370g (around 2250 euro).
3. Bora WTO 45 DB C23 with 23mm inner rim width, weighing 1405g (around 2250 euro).

As you can see, I can get a pretty good deal on the 'old' 'narrow' WTO33 DB.
The new C23 is lighter, wider, but approx. 1000 euro more expensive (prices will probably go down a bit as they're just launched, but I won't hope for it).
I included the 45 DB C23 as it's as lighter than the old 33 DB, it's the same price as the 35 DB C23 and I am very comfortable riding wheels with high rims (so if the new version is a no-brainer, I would probably opt for higher rims).

I am currently riding 25mm tires on either C15 (yes, that old) or C17 rims, and I am fairly comfortable with both set-ups, and I already notice a big improvement going from C15 to C17 with 25mm. I am now looking for a do-it-all wheelset for my new disc bike (Giant TCR which I am trying to get lighter), and will probably use the wheels for all weather, many years and about 5K a year. I do not race (at least not with this bike), but I ride hard. I have an aerobike as well so this bike is for longer rides with more hills (and some cobbles, think Tour of Flanders kind of cobbles). I would mount 28mm if buying the 'old' 33 DB, and maybe even 30mm if I go for the C23 version.

While I could say money is no issue, I would rather not spend more than I need to.

Is it a no-brainer to go for the C23, or is it more of a fine balance / personal preference and would the 'old' 33 be good enough to ride and not regret missing out on something?

Input / experiences are greatly appreciated, especially by those having ridden both.
Since you mention longer rides with more hills, I'd suggest Hyperon (non-Ultra). It's in the same price range as WTO C23 but I think the design is better than Bora WTO 35/45. For WTO, I'd consider the 60 only.
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ichobi
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by ichobi

Can you expand why the 60 design is better than the 35/45?


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jlok
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by jlok

ichobi wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2024 9:10 am
Can you expand why the 60 design is better than the 35/45?


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Just my 2cents. WTO is obviously marketed as aero wheels. A 23 int-width rim is optimized for 28mm tires. 28mm tires frontal area is larger than 25 so it's actually less aero by itself. Between the three, the 60 will suffer the least as the frontal-area to depth ratio is the largest (learned that from he-who-cannot-be-named-here 5-yo). After all, if I need aero, I want the rim as deep as possible.

For me, Hyperon and WTO 60 are the best wheels I need for climbing and flat/rolling terrains. I think I have said that in another post, but I'd say again here, I don't think the WTO 35 should exist (when there is the Hyperon).

Why not the other brands of deeper wheels? I simply love the workmanship of Campy wheels more than any brand else.
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

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de zwarten
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Location: belgium

by de zwarten

Thanks jlok, very good food for thought!
I agree the 33mm (and 35mm) is in the same class as Hyperon and a bit redundant, even more so as you have WTO and WTO ultra.
I've had hyperons before (tubular, rim), and couldn't fault them.

I also agree WTO 60 is the specification that could be best for WTO. I have looked at other wheels but none are as satisfying to ride and look at as high-end Campa wheels, imho.

Greny
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2022 1:07 pm

by Greny

de zwarten wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2024 3:35 pm
Thanks jlok, very good food for thought!
I agree the 33mm (and 35mm) is in the same class as Hyperon and a bit redundant, even more so as you have WTO and WTO ultra.
I've had hyperons before (tubular, rim), and couldn't fault them.

I also agree WTO 60 is the specification that could be best for WTO. I have looked at other wheels but none are as satisfying to ride and look at as high-end Campa wheels, imho.
And what did you decide ? Btw where would you buy them ?

Greny
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by Greny

Anyone riding the c23 version? If so , how are they comfort wise ?

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de zwarten
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Location: belgium

by de zwarten

Greny wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 1:46 pm
de zwarten wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2024 3:35 pm
Thanks jlok, very good food for thought!
I agree the 33mm (and 35mm) is in the same class as Hyperon and a bit redundant, even more so as you have WTO and WTO ultra.
I've had hyperons before (tubular, rim), and couldn't fault them.

I also agree WTO 60 is the specification that could be best for WTO. I have looked at other wheels but none are as satisfying to ride and look at as high-end Campa wheels, imho.
And what did you decide ? Btw where would you buy them ?
I'm still undecided but I'm leaning towards the 60mm C23 at the moment. I could still have a great deal on the pre-C23 version of the 33 WTO, but I feel I'll not going to enjoy them as much as I want to go wider (than the current C17 + 25mm I'm riding), and don't want to do a half-decent job in upgrading.

Nickldn
Posts: 2016
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

de zwarten wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2024 5:31 pm
Greny wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 1:46 pm
de zwarten wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2024 3:35 pm
Thanks jlok, very good food for thought!
I agree the 33mm (and 35mm) is in the same class as Hyperon and a bit redundant, even more so as you have WTO and WTO ultra.
I've had hyperons before (tubular, rim), and couldn't fault them.

I also agree WTO 60 is the specification that could be best for WTO. I have looked at other wheels but none are as satisfying to ride and look at as high-end Campa wheels, imho.
And what did you decide ? Btw where would you buy them ?
I'm still undecided but I'm leaning towards the 60mm C23 at the moment. I could still have a great deal on the pre-C23 version of the 33 WTO, but I feel I'll not going to enjoy them as much as I want to go wider (than the current C17 + 25mm I'm riding), and don't want to do a half-decent job in upgrading.
The 33 WTO is not a close substitute for the 60 in any width. The difference in depth is significant (well almost double) and so these wheel depths have very different use cases.

I would not take the 60s to the Alps and I would not ride a TT with the 33s.

Which wheels will be better for you depends on where you ride and how much you value every last bit of speed, not their width. 45s are still the best all round depth.
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