Bora WTO

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ParisCarbon
Posts: 1918
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

bobones wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 12:41 pm
I've had my WTOs a couple of years now, and I haven't touched the hubs at all, save to fit an XDR driver. I don't ride them in the rain if I can help it, but they've been wet a few times, so I guess I should be thinking of servicing the bearings. Any tips or gotchas I should know about?
Yes.. if they are rim brake DO NOT use 2 allen keys on either side of the front hub and try to undo the axle end caps.. you will end up potentially stripping it and need a new axle.. I got 2 very thin pieces of metal bar, and stick those on the flat spot of the cone on the front hub, put it in a vice, THEN undo the one end cap..

smokva
Posts: 276
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:13 pm

by smokva

ParisCarbon wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:34 pm
Yes.. if they are rim brake DO NOT use 2 allen keys on either side of the front hub and try to undo the axle end caps.. you will end up potentially stripping it and need a new axle.. I got 2 very thin pieces of metal bar, and stick those on the flat spot of the cone on the front hub, put it in a vice, THEN undo the one end cap..
I have red this many times, but what is the difference in this regard between Record hubs (or ones on Zonda/Eurus/Shamal/Bora Ultra) and the ones on Bora WTO? shouldn't they all be the same...and I have opened Record onem gazillion of times with 2 allen keys. I also have Bora WTO and haven't opened it yet.

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ParisCarbon
Posts: 1918
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

smokva wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:57 am
ParisCarbon wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:34 pm
Yes.. if they are rim brake DO NOT use 2 allen keys on either side of the front hub and try to undo the axle end caps.. you will end up potentially stripping it and need a new axle.. I got 2 very thin pieces of metal bar, and stick those on the flat spot of the cone on the front hub, put it in a vice, THEN undo the one end cap..
I have red this many times, but what is the difference in this regard between Record hubs (or ones on Zonda/Eurus/Shamal/Bora Ultra) and the ones on Bora WTO? shouldn't they all be the same...and I have opened Record onem gazillion of times with 2 allen keys. I also have Bora WTO and haven't opened it yet.
Direct quote from knowledgable sources when I did my mods :
Beware of stripping front hub, its tricky, not the same as older versions. I'd advise making up a small tool to use in the vice the 1st time you do it, the factory recommended method is fine after that. For some reason the factory lock the components exceedingly tight on the axle which can lead to damage on initial dis-assembly unless you are very careful.

Just get to thin strips of metal (like 5mm) stick them on the flat cone in a vice tight, and undo.. then all is well.. done it 3 times..and not an issue...

smokva
Posts: 276
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:13 pm

by smokva

Just checked Campagnolo documentation...Bora WTO rim brake has the same axle (part number HB-BO201) and caps (HB-BO127) as Bora Ultra 50/35, Bora One 50/35 and Zonda C17.
All other Campagnolo cup and cone wheels (Bora Ultra 80, Shamal Mille/Ultra, Bullet Ultra H50, Eurus, Neutron Ultra....) use axle and end caps of different part numbers.
Didn't check for disc brake version, but probably the same conclusion.

So, if that about stripping front hub is truth, I would also be aware of it while opening Bora Ultra, Bora One and Zonda C17 front hubs. They are probably being factory tightened at the same torque.

Ferdi77
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2021 5:37 pm

by Ferdi77

Hi guys,

I didn’t read all of the 1k posts in this topic so a little bit of mercy for me, if it’s redundant or have been asked in the past.

I’m into buying a new wheelset and Bike24 offers the bora WTO clinchers 45 for 1450 bucks - is this a good deal?
Maybe anybody has some experience with Chinese wheels (winspace or far sports )in comparison?

How is the serviceability of the campy boras? I have a Ultegra di2 group set - I heard a “rumor” that braking performance is better with campy shifters…

Thank you in advance !


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smokva
Posts: 276
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:13 pm

by smokva

Servicability with Bora WTO....
- for rim truing you need special spoke wrench...Campagnolo part number UT-WH090 or Fulcrum part number T-18 (They are the same). Price is arround 8 EUR.
- There are original replacement spokes and nipples. I don't know what is the tread on spokes, but if it's standard 2,00 or 1,80 (edited - corrected) mm you can use Dt or Sapim as replacement and no need to buy those expensive replacements from Campagnolo.
- Hubs are standard cup and cone campagnolo hubs and spare parts shouldn't be a problem.

So....they are very servicable.

Price that you have mentioned is great, but only WTO 45 are on discount, WTO 60 are still arround 1750 EUR on b24.
I would always choose WTO 60 over WTO 45. Currently bike-discount.de has better prices for WTO 60 than bike24. Check it out.

Campagnolo Bora has been golden standard for years in high profile carbon wheels so I never wanted to experiment with chinese wheels. I was tempted to try swissside, but at the end i opted for wto 60.
Last edited by smokva on Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ferdi77
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2021 5:37 pm

by Ferdi77

smokva wrote:Servicability with Bora WTO....
- for rim truing you need special spoke wrench...Campagnolo part number UT-WH090 or Fulcrum part number T-18 (They are the same). Price is arround 8 EUR.
- There are original replacement spokes and nipples. I don't know what is the tread on spokes, but if it's standard 2,00 or 1,00 mm you can use Dt or Sapim as replacement and no need to buy those expensive replacements from Campagnolo.
- Hubs are standard cup and cone campagnolo hubs and spare parts shouldn't be a problem.

So....they are very servicable.

Price that you have mentioned is great, but only WTO 45 are on discount, WTO 60 are still arround 1750 EUR on b24.
I would always choose WTO 60 over WTO 45. Currently bike-discount.de has better prices for WTO 60 than bike24. Check it out.

Campagnolo Bora has been golden standard for years in high profile carbon wheels so I never wanted to experiment with chinese wheels. I was tempted to try swissside, but at the end i opted for wto 60.
Thank you for the insights! I was favoring the 45 because of crosswinds and I already have the Dt swiss arc dicut 1400 62mm… I don’t like the braking performance of the Dt swiss and the behavior in crosswinds, so that’s the reason for the change to 45…


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Nickldn
Posts: 1866
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

Ferdi77 wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:22 pm
smokva wrote:Servicability with Bora WTO....
- for rim truing you need special spoke wrench...Campagnolo part number UT-WH090 or Fulcrum part number T-18 (They are the same). Price is arround 8 EUR.
- There are original replacement spokes and nipples. I don't know what is the tread on spokes, but if it's standard 2,00 or 1,00 mm you can use Dt or Sapim as replacement and no need to buy those expensive replacements from Campagnolo.
- Hubs are standard cup and cone campagnolo hubs and spare parts shouldn't be a problem.

So....they are very servicable.

Price that you have mentioned is great, but only WTO 45 are on discount, WTO 60 are still arround 1750 EUR on b24.
I would always choose WTO 60 over WTO 45. Currently bike-discount.de has better prices for WTO 60 than bike24. Check it out.

Campagnolo Bora has been golden standard for years in high profile carbon wheels so I never wanted to experiment with chinese wheels. I was tempted to try swissside, but at the end i opted for wto 60.
Thank you for the insights! I was favoring the 45 because of crosswinds and I already have the Dt swiss arc dicut 1400 62mm… I don’t like the braking performance of the Dt swiss and the behavior in crosswinds, so that’s the reason for the change to 45…


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Can confirm WTO 45s are very good in crosswinds with 25C tyres fitted. Not sure if wider tyres affect behaviour.

Bear in mind the WTO is a fairly narrow rim at 26.1mm external width. If you want to run wide tyres, like 28C+ you may see an aero penalty.

I'm running mine with GP5000S TR 25mm and they are very fast! The WTO 60 would no doubt be better at holding speed above 25mph. Something to carefully consider if this is important to you.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg

Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg

SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress

Ferdi77
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2021 5:37 pm

by Ferdi77

Nickldn wrote:
Ferdi77 wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:22 pm
smokva wrote:Servicability with Bora WTO....
- for rim truing you need special spoke wrench...Campagnolo part number UT-WH090 or Fulcrum part number T-18 (They are the same). Price is arround 8 EUR.
- There are original replacement spokes and nipples. I don't know what is the tread on spokes, but if it's standard 2,00 or 1,00 mm you can use Dt or Sapim as replacement and no need to buy those expensive replacements from Campagnolo.
- Hubs are standard cup and cone campagnolo hubs and spare parts shouldn't be a problem.

So....they are very servicable.

Price that you have mentioned is great, but only WTO 45 are on discount, WTO 60 are still arround 1750 EUR on b24.
I would always choose WTO 60 over WTO 45. Currently bike-discount.de has better prices for WTO 60 than bike24. Check it out.

Campagnolo Bora has been golden standard for years in high profile carbon wheels so I never wanted to experiment with chinese wheels. I was tempted to try swissside, but at the end i opted for wto 60.
Thank you for the insights! I was favoring the 45 because of crosswinds and I already have the Dt swiss arc dicut 1400 62mm… I don’t like the braking performance of the Dt swiss and the behavior in crosswinds, so that’s the reason for the change to 45…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Can confirm WTO 45s are very good in crosswinds with 25C tyres fitted. Not sure if wider tyres affect behaviour.

Bear in mind the WTO is a fairly narrow rim at 26.1mm external width. If you want to run wide tyres, like 28C+ you may see an aero penalty.

I'm running mine with GP5000S TR 25mm and they are very fast! The WTO 60 would no doubt be better at holding speed above 25mph. Something to carefully consider if this is important to you.
Thank you for your insights! I’m looking for a more all around wheelset - I’m using not wider than 25 in the front, so it should be ok with the 26mm ext rim. My Dt swiss 1400 62mm are quite scary in crosswinds, so i don’t know if it’s the same for the wto60.


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usr
Posts: 889
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:58 pm

by usr

smokva wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:50 am
So, if that about stripping front hub is truth, I would also be aware of it while opening Bora Ultra, Bora One and Zonda C17 front hubs. They are probably being factory tightened at the same torque.
Most likely the problem is that they aren't, not same torque. Or same torque but some chemical involved, or perhaps even something entirely unexpected like a temperature difference that does the difference between perfect torque and far too strong shrink fit.

Sometimes the difference between an assembly line with perfect results and a seemingly identical line with a terrible failure rate is the location relative to a window.

AW84
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:04 am

by AW84

Didn't get great feedback on this when I asked originally, but in the $1500 and under price range, the WTO seems like the best quality wheelset out there, but they are narrow by ther mot modern of standard. Would you all consider the width a tradeoff for the overall quality and build of the wheels?

jlok
Posts: 2400
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

I'm using WTO 60 Ultra with 28mm tires. Do I feel the aero loss? No. Can it be measured and the results are reproduceable? Unlikely. Most importantly, does it really matter? I think most people got carried away by the marketing when selecting a wheelset.
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

smokva
Posts: 276
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:13 pm

by smokva

AW84 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:04 am
Didn't get great feedback on this when I asked originally, but in the $1500 and under price range, the WTO seems like the best quality wheelset out there, but they are narrow by ther mot modern of standard. Would you all consider the width a tradeoff for the overall quality and build of the wheels?
My opinion about aero wheels and rim/tire width...
- if you average below 30 km/h than aero gains are not that much and you can put any tire/wheel combo you want. Forget about 105% rule and don't bother with it. Buy the wheels which you like the most.
- if you average above 30 km/h than aero gains are more and more important and in that case wider tire is worse, narrow tire will always be faster because aero gains will be bigger than rolling resistance. This is why I prefer "narrower" high profile wheels which are aero optimized for tires of measured width up to 25 mm.

Regarding comfort...if we talk about high profile aero wheels we are talking about racing bike, aggresive position and fast riding. In this case I don't need more comfort than what I get out of 25 mm tires.
So, in my opinion Bora is not a tradeoff, every other wide rim is a tradeoff...they trade aero gains for comfort which I don't need in the first place.

Nickldn
Posts: 1866
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

smokva wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:58 am
AW84 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:04 am
Didn't get great feedback on this when I asked originally, but in the $1500 and under price range, the WTO seems like the best quality wheelset out there, but they are narrow by ther mot modern of standard. Would you all consider the width a tradeoff for the overall quality and build of the wheels?
My opinion about aero wheels and rim/tire width...
- if you average below 30 km/h than aero gains are not that much and you can put any tire/wheel combo you want. Forget about 105% rule and don't bother with it. Buy the wheels which you like the most.
- if you average above 30 km/h than aero gains are more and more important and in that case wider tire is worse, narrow tire will always be faster because aero gains will be bigger than rolling resistance. This is why I prefer "narrower" high profile wheels which are aero optimized for tires of measured width up to 25 mm.

Regarding comfort...if we talk about high profile aero wheels we are talking about racing bike, aggresive position and fast riding. In this case I don't need more comfort than what I get out of 25 mm tires.
So, in my opinion Bora is not a tradeoff, every other wide rim is a tradeoff...they trade aero gains for comfort which I don't need in the first place.
I fully agree with your logic. Wider rims are less aero in absolute terms and the industry is pushing wide rims for the sake of comfort for use with 28C+ tyres (see Roval front rim for SL7). Campy has not done this with the WTO and in some ways I have to applaud that decision, they are true to their racing roots.

But most Campy customers are not racing and even using 25C tyres on the WTOs is not great, as many inflate to 26mm+. I now use gp5000s tr tyres as they are fairly true to size on the WTO. What worries me is that there is not a lot of choice in narrow tyres and likely to be less in the future as the industry goes wider.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg

Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg

SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress

Ferdi77
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2021 5:37 pm

by Ferdi77

So - the WTO 45 would be a nice match as a all around wheelset?? Or would you recommend the 60? Little bit hilly - avg speed is above 30 km/h.


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by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

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