Making the transition to tubulars

Wheels, Tires, Tubes, Tubeless, Tubs, Spokes, Hookless, Hubs, and more!

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If a new wheel tech is released, (say for example, TPU tubes, a brand new tire, or a new rim standard), feel free to start the discussion in the popular "Road". Your topic will eventually be moved here!
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C36
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by C36

Any latex tube (tubetype or tubular) will need inflation each day. The cost of rolling resistance and flexibiiity over bad roads.

stermyx
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Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:31 pm

by stermyx

C36 wrote:
Fri Dec 30, 2022 7:31 pm
Any latex tube (tubetype or tubular) will need inflation each day. The cost of rolling resistance and flexibiiity over bad roads.
Yes, i knew something about, but it lost almost half of the pressure. I though it were less.

Thanks.

by Weenie


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charirider
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Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:00 am

by charirider

C36 wrote:
Fri Dec 30, 2022 7:31 pm
Any latex tube (tubetype or tubular) will need inflation each day. The cost of rolling resistance and flexibiiity over bad roads.
That's why I ride "harsh" Conti Comp... they just last and do not need to re-inflate for weeks.
2018 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2 rim size 56 (raw stripped) 6.8kg
2014 Bridgestone Anchor CX6 Equipe size 55 (cyclocross) 9.6kg

dhernan592
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Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:04 pm

by dhernan592

Been full time on Corsa G 25mm tubulars for two years now. I also live in the Rockies and have had an explosive clincher failure at 40 mph, which is what convinced me to make the switch. So far I've had to replace 3 (two rears, one front) but can't really complain. They've held up well for bumpy and gravelly roads

Bazzman1968
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Joined: Sat May 06, 2023 3:03 am

by Bazzman1968

Tubulars are worth the extra effort, I have resisted the push away from tubs, maybe I'm just getting old but I won't stop using them ever. Baz

Ytse
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by Ytse

Rookie question, but still: are tubs a thing in 2023? I can buy a pair of rarely ridden ex-pro Enve ARs for a very reasonable price (eg third of MSRP), but they are tubular version. Now I ride tubeless on both my bikes but I'm tempted to try tubs - at least on one of my 2 bikes. What are the pros and cons of tubs for a 68kg rider who never races and rides 95% solo (cca 8000 km annually), mostly on flat or rolling terrain and prefers comfort over a few secs advantage?
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eurostar
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Location: London

by eurostar

Yes, they are a thing. Lots of companies still make tubs

Pros:
- posh wheels for cheap, as you've discovered. (Lightweights at 75% off on ebay.)
- easy mounting with tape (which increases CRR, so use glue for time trials)
- easy puncture repair with sealant or a spare tub for backup
- safety when puncturing, because the tub stays on and your rim doesn't touch the road
- comfort

Cons:
- carrying a spare tub all the time in case the sealant doesn't work
- buying tyres and tape online, because bike shops rarely stock them
- planning ahead with tyre purchase, because lead times fluctuate
- nobody makes wide toroidal rims for tubs. Maybe they never will.
- the horrors of glue, if you try it (don't bother, use this https://www.effettomariposa.eu/products ... luing-tape)
Last edited by eurostar on Sun May 28, 2023 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

eurostar wrote:Yes, they are a thing. Lots of companies still make tubs

Pros:
- posh wheels for cheap, as you've discovered. (Lightweights at 75% off on ebay.)
- easy mounting with tape
- easy puncture repair with sealant or a spare tub for backup
- safety when puncturing, because the tub stays on and your rim doesn't touch the road
- comfort

Cons:
- carrying a spare tub all the time in case the sealant doesn't work
- buying tyres and tape online, because bike shops rarely stock them
- planning ahead with tyre purchase, because lead times fluctuate
- nobody makes wide toroidal rims for tubs. Maybe they never will.
- the horrors of glue, if you try it (don't bother, use this https://www.effettomariposa.eu/products ... luing-tape)
If you’re using tape to secure your tubs you may as well not bother. Tape is significantly thicker than glue and robs the tyre of most if not all the benefits in rolling resistance.

Back in the day, 30 years ago tubs were a performance upgrade over clinchers. But clincher tech has been improved significantly over the intervening years so the gap is insignificant. I loved my SSC, GL330 & GEL280 wheels but tubs aren’t worth the hassle any more. No weight benefit, no rolling resistance benefit and a pain in the arse to maintain.

Spend the money elsewhere


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eurostar
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by eurostar

ultimobici wrote:
Sun May 28, 2023 4:39 pm
Tape is significantly thicker than glue and robs the tyre of most if not all the benefits in rolling resistance.
Got any numbers or links?

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=98681&p=839505#p839505


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eurostar
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by eurostar

Ok course you're right about CRR and there's masses of research about it. Tons to read. This Leonard Zinn article is an easy starting point https://archive.ph/vtGc3 Time trialissts definitely shouldn't use tub tape, and they might as well stick with clinchers.

But Ytse and I don't compete. We just ride recreationally and we don't have unlimited funds. Our choice is between everyday rims with clinchers/tubeless, or super posh professional rims with tubs for the same price. The latter is more fun. No medals are involved.

DHG01
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by DHG01

On rim brake, tubular wheels were lighter and less prone to heating problems.

It's incredible how light disc wheels have become.


Except a recent transition to tubeless for gravel; I only ride tubulars. Rolling is on par with high end tubeless. The big advantage for me is how easy it is to repair a puncture. Challenge is if the puncture doesn't repair.... (my road bikes are rim brake).

If what you are saying is that you can get a great set of Enve a ar 1/3 the price - go for it.

Ytse
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by Ytse

DHG01 wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 3:03 pm
On rim brake, tubular wheels were lighter and less prone to heating problems.

It's incredible how light disc wheels have become.


Except a recent transition to tubeless for gravel; I only ride tubulars. Rolling is on par with high end tubeless. The big advantage for me is how easy it is to repair a puncture. Challenge is if the puncture doesn't repair.... (my road bikes are rim brake).

If what you are saying is that you can get a great set of Enve a ar 1/3 the price - go for it.
My tubeless tyres are set up with sealant and I have never had any roadside tyre repair in the last 5 years since ditching clinchers. How is a tubular "repair" different from a tubeless "repair"?
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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

Ytse wrote:My tubeless tyres are set up with sealant and I have never had any roadside tyre repair in the last 5 years since ditching clinchers. How is a tubular "repair" different from a tubeless "repair"?
It isn’t. If you repair a tub properly it’s a pain in the arse. If you use sealant it’s no different to a tubeless as long as it’s a Tufo. If it’s a proper tub it’s a ghetto fix.


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DHG01
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by DHG01

Ytse wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 5:08 pm
DHG01 wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 3:03 pm
On rim brake, tubular wheels were lighter and less prone to heating problems.

It's incredible how light disc wheels have become.


Except a recent transition to tubeless for gravel; I only ride tubulars. Rolling is on par with high end tubeless. The big advantage for me is how easy it is to repair a puncture. Challenge is if the puncture doesn't repair.... (my road bikes are rim brake).

If what you are saying is that you can get a great set of Enve a ar 1/3 the price - go for it.
My tubeless tyres are set up with sealant and I have never had any roadside tyre repair in the last 5 years since ditching clinchers. How is a tubular "repair" different from a tubeless "repair"?
Am I right to assume you are on >=28 mm tyres.

Tubeless is great; we are not going to reinvent the wheel now.

A tubular usually is ran without sealant (some choose to run with). It might be the inner tube, the different casing (it doesn't peal open as much?) or perhaps I don't know what it is, but a tubular will typically seal and tolerate ~ 7/8 bar pressures. With the current tyres at 25-27 mm, that is more than plenty.

So when you get a flat, open the valve and pour some liquid.

Tubeless road is well known to have sealing challenges on 25 mm (we are not going to reinvent the wheel now). Until my recent conversion to tubeless, I wasnt very experienced in road tubeless. But during a ride I did get a puncture on 25 mm tyres. It created a mess and then it wouldn't hold more than 4 bar.
Options are low pressure or insert inner tube; that may be messy and may be very difficult to fit the tyre back in (again - this isn't news to anyone).

If I can't seal a tubular (which has happened, but rarely), I taxi back home or put on a spare - which takes me less than 5 minutes (though I probably spent 15 min trying to seal previously).

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