Making the transition to tubulars

Wheels, Tires, Tubes, Tubeless, Tubs, Spokes, Hookless, Hubs, and more!

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DHG01
Posts: 762
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:14 pm
Location: Madrid

by DHG01

ultimobici wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 5:13 pm
Ytse wrote:My tubeless tyres are set up with sealant and I have never had any roadside tyre repair in the last 5 years since ditching clinchers. How is a tubular "repair" different from a tubeless "repair"?
It isn’t. If you repair a tub properly it’s a pain in the arse. If you use sealant it’s no different to a tubeless as long as it’s a Tufo. If it’s a proper tub it’s a ghetto fix.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Are you referring to Tufo sealant? Which works very well with Tufo tubulars but I wouldn't recommend with latex inner tubes.

What does ghetto fix mean? Most frequently it will seal and everything will be solved within 5-10 minutes?
I do pump manually, let the sealant work and then finish off with the CO2 cartridge.

DHG01
Posts: 762
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:14 pm
Location: Madrid

by DHG01

Also, I think tubulars are safer; we have seen tubeless roll off. On the other hand, >28 mm tubeless will almost always have a solution.

In any case, if he can get, and wants, cool ENVE wheelset at 1/3 price, tubular wouldn't stop me.

What is important and not being mentioned, is the declining tubular tyre offering and halt to development in such tyre type.
Last edited by DHG01 on Mon May 29, 2023 9:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Ytse
Posts: 340
Joined: Thu May 05, 2022 11:53 am

by Ytse

DHG01 wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 6:35 pm
Ytse wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 5:08 pm
DHG01 wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 3:03 pm
On rim brake, tubular wheels were lighter and less prone to heating problems.

It's incredible how light disc wheels have become.


Except a recent transition to tubeless for gravel; I only ride tubulars. Rolling is on par with high end tubeless. The big advantage for me is how easy it is to repair a puncture. Challenge is if the puncture doesn't repair.... (my road bikes are rim brake).

If what you are saying is that you can get a great set of Enve a ar 1/3 the price - go for it.
My tubeless tyres are set up with sealant and I have never had any roadside tyre repair in the last 5 years since ditching clinchers. How is a tubular "repair" different from a tubeless "repair"?
Am I right to assume you are on >=28 mm tyres.

Tubeless is great; we are not going to reinvent the wheel now.

A tubular usually is ran without sealant (some choose to run with). It might be the inner tube, the different casing (it doesn't peal open as much?) or perhaps I don't know what it is, but a tubular will typically seal and tolerate ~ 7/8 bar pressures. With the current tyres at 25-27 mm, that is more than plenty.

So when you get a flat, open the valve and pour some liquid.

Tubeless road is well known to have sealing challenges on 25 mm (we are not going to reinvent the wheel now). Until my recent conversion to tubeless, I wasnt very experienced in road tubeless. But during a ride I did get a puncture on 25 mm tyres. It created a mess and then it wouldn't hold more than 4 bar.
Options are low pressure or insert inner tube; that may be messy and may be very difficult to fit the tyre back in (again - this isn't news to anyone).

If I can't seal a tubular (which has happened, but rarely), I taxi back home or put on a spare - which takes me less than 5 minutes (though I probably spent 15 min trying to seal previously).
I run 28mm F/R on one of my bikes, 25/28 F/R on the other. As a ~68kg rider, my tyre pressure is pretty low. 4/4.5 bar on the 28mm F/R setup, 5/4.5 bar on the 25/28mm one. Taxi is not an option for me, as I do most of my rider is rural areas. Is there any way to repair a tub roadside? With tubeless, I can put a tube in, at least in theory, because I have never ever needed to do that.
2020 Scott Addict RC / 2023 Specialized Tarmac SL8

DHG01
Posts: 762
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:14 pm
Location: Madrid

by DHG01

Ytse wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 7:08 pm
DHG01 wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 6:35 pm
Ytse wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 5:08 pm
DHG01 wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 3:03 pm
On rim brake, tubular wheels were lighter and less prone to heating problems.

It's incredible how light disc wheels have become.


Except a recent transition to tubeless for gravel; I only ride tubulars. Rolling is on par with high end tubeless. The big advantage for me is how easy it is to repair a puncture. Challenge is if the puncture doesn't repair.... (my road bikes are rim brake).

If what you are saying is that you can get a great set of Enve a ar 1/3 the price - go for it.
My tubeless tyres are set up with sealant and I have never had any roadside tyre repair in the last 5 years since ditching clinchers. How is a tubular "repair" different from a tubeless "repair"?
Am I right to assume you are on >=28 mm tyres.

Tubeless is great; we are not going to reinvent the wheel now.

A tubular usually is ran without sealant (some choose to run with). It might be the inner tube, the different casing (it doesn't peal open as much?) or perhaps I don't know what it is, but a tubular will typically seal and tolerate ~ 7/8 bar pressures. With the current tyres at 25-27 mm, that is more than plenty.

So when you get a flat, open the valve and pour some liquid.

Tubeless road is well known to have sealing challenges on 25 mm (we are not going to reinvent the wheel now). Until my recent conversion to tubeless, I wasnt very experienced in road tubeless. But during a ride I did get a puncture on 25 mm tyres. It created a mess and then it wouldn't hold more than 4 bar.
Options are low pressure or insert inner tube; that may be messy and may be very difficult to fit the tyre back in (again - this isn't news to anyone).

If I can't seal a tubular (which has happened, but rarely), I taxi back home or put on a spare - which takes me less than 5 minutes (though I probably spent 15 min trying to seal previously).
I run 28mm F/R on one of my bikes, 25/28 F/R on the other. As a ~68kg rider, my tyre pressure is pretty low. 4/4.5 bar on the 28mm F/R setup, 5/4.5 bar on the 25/28mm one. Taxi is not an option for me, as I do most of my rider is rural areas. Is there any way to repair a tub roadside? With tubeless, I can put a tube in, at least in theory, because I have never ever needed to do that.

A tubular can be repaired with sealant or carrying spare. I thought you knew that by now.

Tubeless will offer more options; which I think we also know.

You have never punctured and never will. So you have won the pissing contest. Don't buy the Enve s.

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Kayrehn
Posts: 1790
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:06 pm

by Kayrehn

I fix my latex Vittoria corsa tubulars with Orange sealant just fine, usually ride my 25mm at 85psi. Yes, 25mm for tubulars is fine for me with good roads, people on clinchers feel the need to go 28mm because it's inherently stiffer.

Very important for me, tubulars are much less likely to just explode like clincher inner tubes might. Once almost finished a group ride of 70km on flat terrain and a friend's tube just exploded when we were at a traffic stop.

If people actually read the thread title, this thread is to help people starting to use tubulars. It's all good if your think tubeless is better, just resist the urge to come here and start a new argument about that.




Last edited by Kayrehn on Mon May 29, 2023 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ytse
Posts: 340
Joined: Thu May 05, 2022 11:53 am

by Ytse

DHG01 wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 7:20 pm
Ytse wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 7:08 pm
DHG01 wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 6:35 pm
Ytse wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 5:08 pm


My tubeless tyres are set up with sealant and I have never had any roadside tyre repair in the last 5 years since ditching clinchers. How is a tubular "repair" different from a tubeless "repair"?
Am I right to assume you are on >=28 mm tyres.

Tubeless is great; we are not going to reinvent the wheel now.

A tubular usually is ran without sealant (some choose to run with). It might be the inner tube, the different casing (it doesn't peal open as much?) or perhaps I don't know what it is, but a tubular will typically seal and tolerate ~ 7/8 bar pressures. With the current tyres at 25-27 mm, that is more than plenty.

So when you get a flat, open the valve and pour some liquid.

Tubeless road is well known to have sealing challenges on 25 mm (we are not going to reinvent the wheel now). Until my recent conversion to tubeless, I wasnt very experienced in road tubeless. But during a ride I did get a puncture on 25 mm tyres. It created a mess and then it wouldn't hold more than 4 bar.
Options are low pressure or insert inner tube; that may be messy and may be very difficult to fit the tyre back in (again - this isn't news to anyone).

If I can't seal a tubular (which has happened, but rarely), I taxi back home or put on a spare - which takes me less than 5 minutes (though I probably spent 15 min trying to seal previously).
I run 28mm F/R on one of my bikes, 25/28 F/R on the other. As a ~68kg rider, my tyre pressure is pretty low. 4/4.5 bar on the 28mm F/R setup, 5/4.5 bar on the 25/28mm one. Taxi is not an option for me, as I do most of my rider is rural areas. Is there any way to repair a tub roadside? With tubeless, I can put a tube in, at least in theory, because I have never ever needed to do that.

A tubular can be repaired with sealant or carrying spare. I thought you knew that by now.
I know now that carrying a spare is an option. What I don't know if it's possible to glue/tape tubs roadside.
2020 Scott Addict RC / 2023 Specialized Tarmac SL8

eurostar
Posts: 490
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:19 pm
Location: London

by eurostar

It is. When you inflate the new tyre the old glue or tape is sticky enough to hold it on, but maybe not sticky enough for high speed corners while descending. Fitting the new tub is faster than fitting a new inner tube in a clincher. When you get home you look it over and decide whether it needs more glue or tape.

The spare tube needs to be stretched before you pack it away in your toolkit or whatever. If you're using glue, the spare also needs to be pre-glued with a dry coat of glue.

If you're old school you can use a toe strap to store it under the saddle https://athletictimemachine.files.wordp ... 010027.jpg https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vint ... ire-2.html or wear it on your shoulders https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... Leducq.jpg. But there are modern alternatives viewtopic.php?t=157246

eurostar
Posts: 490
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:19 pm
Location: London

by eurostar

ultimobici wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 5:13 pm

If you repair a tub properly it’s a pain in the arse.
You're talking about unstitching it to patch the inner? I wonder how many people still do that in the age of sealant. I wouldn't mind....I haven't done it yet but I'm sort of looking forward to the experience. I wouldn't want to throw away an expensive tyre just because the sealant didn't work.

DHG01
Posts: 762
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:14 pm
Location: Madrid

by DHG01

eurostar wrote:
Tue May 30, 2023 1:42 am
ultimobici wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 5:13 pm

If you repair a tub properly it’s a pain in the arse.
You're talking about unstitching it to patch the inner? I wonder how many people still do that in the age of sealant. I wouldn't mind....I haven't done it yet but I'm sort of looking forward to the experience. I wouldn't want to throw away an expensive tyre just because the sealant didn't work.
I think If you use sealant, you can't unstitch and repair- a patch will not work on an inner tube with sealant.

velov
Posts: 456
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:09 am

by velov

Curious if anyone made the switch to tubs and ended up going back to clinchers?

Singular
Posts: 537
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:59 am

by Singular

Doesn't everyone, eventually? The advantages that tubulars had against clinchers have been offset by tubeless (runflat ability with inserts, less risk of pinch flats), the weight advantage is not only diminishing but second to rolling resistance now and braking (heat buildup) is a non-issue with disc brakes (and rim brake wheels are good enough for alpine excursions by now). With that said, I still keep a few pairs as I love their ride feel and their, for now, unique position in CX.

...and, in a longer perspective, everyone will as it is rapidly approaching dead tech - just as my other darlings mechanical shifting and rim brakes...

ico
Posts: 301
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 8:20 pm
Location: on the border

by ico

It is all about preferences. I once experienced flat on clinchers on the front wheel when descending and never ever want to repeat that again. That was the point when I switched to tubulars, more then a decade ago and I'm not planning to go back to clinchers. Tubeless? Thanks, tried it when it starts many years ago in mtb. In my experience the real reason why people are not riding more on tubulars is the price. Flat means cca 100,- Eur. Clinchers - 10,- Eur. That's all. It is luxury and not everyone want to spend on it or can afford it. They are definitely not "dead tech". Why would they? They are proven and developed product with advantages and disadvantages. Each to his own.

ico
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Location: on the border

by ico

double post.

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C36
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by C36

velov wrote:Curious if anyone made the switch to tubs and ended up going back to clinchers?
I don’t think many ride exclusively one or the other. At one point I had Tubulars, Tubetype and Tubeless.
I gave up on TL cause I puncture once in a blue moon and have enough wheels (or don’t ride enough Image) to dry sealant before I swap tires.

I only ride high end Tubulars (corsa speed or ProTour race) that have same RR as the best tires and enjoy the ride quality on selected routes with perfect pavement. They are a bit of an expensive pleasure I am happy to choose once in a while.

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octav
Posts: 312
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:40 pm
Location: Bucharest

by octav

Did anyone try Corsa Pro tubulars? I am thinking between them , Michelin Power Cup or the classic Conti COmpetition

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