Craft Racing wheels - carbon spokes 1180g

[wheelbuilder]

Seeing road cycling and "risk aversion" mix is strange.

[bobones]

I think its something CRW addressed and the retention is now better... but, I can't think about how I'd measure which one is "better"I don't wanna ride down a hill with 0 PSI and see which one comes off first, haha.

Well, it finally happened. I experienced a rapid deflation yesterday. Luckily I was going about 5mph when it happened. The tire bead instantly fell out of the rim hooks and I could not seat the tire again. CO2 inflation wasn't enough, and a hand pump definitely wasn't enough. Had this been at higher speed it would almost certainly have been a very bad outcome.

Today I tried mounting a brand new unstretched gp5k tire. It required a compressor to seat the tire because otherwise the beads just pop to the center channel of the rim bed and all the air spills out around the tire. No amount of coaxing would get the tire into a position where it would hold enough air to seat with a floor pump. I even tried putting in a little sealant to help it seat. No luck.

This behavior is a major annoyance and continues to represent the potential for a significant safety risk. I urge those riding early-production CRW wheels to think twice. I know I know..... queue up the choir of people saying they don't have this problem and it is fine. I'm just saying think twice. I never had a Rapide CLX1 blow apart from riding it tubeless but after a couple of well known events I decided to not become another. That's all. Think twice and assess your risk as you see fit.

If this design flaw has been fixed by CRW, how do those of us with early production wheels get replacements? I hope CRW will stand behind its products.

If not, I'm done with them.

I appreciate your post. I've been on the fence on buying these wheels for some time, specifically because of the issue noted. I often do high speed descents (50+mph) and can't imaging what it would be like to flat AND lose the bead at that speed. I once had a sudden front flat (sliced tire) at about 30mph in the middle of the paceline and almost lost it... but that was with a GP5000 on CLX1 wheels and with zero pressure the bead held strong. I've officially decided I won't be buying these wheels. The risk just isn't worth it to me.

Agreed. These are not truly tubeless compatible if the bead doesn't stay securely locked on to the rim. Definitely off my short list until properly resolved.

[allrandomletters]

I might have the earliest production set of 40/45's. I have had 4 flats - twice on the rear, one from running over metal wire, one from running over a strip of scrap metal, and a double flat from hitting a sharp corner in the pavement where road workers had just milled out a long section across the road on a dark street.

I have run GP5k STR 28s, Power Cup TLR 28s and Power Cup 30s. 3 flats were with the GP5ks. Last was with Power Cup 28. The air loss from hitting the road work was pretty sudden. I have never had the tire fall off the bead shelf as others have described.

I use regular Orange Seal with all the tires. Whenever I change tires, I have to peel/pry the tires off the bead shelf and back to the center channel. Whenever I install tires, I inflate to around 90 PSI, making sure to get every last "POP" from the bead to ensure secure installation.

Some people report issues. Others, like myself, report no issues. All these individual reports, including mine, are of course only anecdotal. The tire problems could be from installation issues, road issues, defect in tires, or any other combination of contributing factors. I see nothing about the design of the rim that would mean it is not "truly tubeless compatible". I have seen on this forum much worse issues in retaining tubeless tires from Roval, Enve, Zipp.

Just curious what you would expect to see in the design of a "truly tubeless compatibe" wheel, and what sort of resolution.

[bobones]

Just curious what you would expect to see in the design of a "truly tubeless compatibe" wheel, and what sort of resolution.

Basically, for commonly used tyres premium tyres like GP5k S TR, Pirelli P Zero, Vittoria Corsa Pro, Michelin Power Cup, etc. to lock securely into bead lock when inflated (perhaps requiring use of a booster or compressor or even addtional tape), and, crucially, to stay that way when deflated (without sealant). For me, issue would be resolved if there were no further reports of this happening by users in this thread. Issue would not be resolved if any of these commonly used tyres were reported to come unseated when deflated. It's that simple.

[LanceLegstrong]

I think its something CRW addressed and the retention is now better... but, I can't think about how I'd measure which one is "better"I don't wanna ride down a hill with 0 PSI and see which one comes off first, haha.

Well, it finally happened. I experienced a rapid deflation yesterday. Luckily I was going about 5mph when it happened. The tire bead instantly fell out of the rim hooks and I could not seat the tire again. CO2 inflation wasn't enough, and a hand pump definitely wasn't enough. Had this been at higher speed it would almost certainly have been a very bad outcome.

Today I tried mounting a brand new unstretched gp5k tire. It required a compressor to seat the tire because otherwise the beads just pop to the center channel of the rim bed and all the air spills out around the tire. No amount of coaxing would get the tire into a position where it would hold enough air to seat with a floor pump. I even tried putting in a little sealant to help it seat. No luck.

This behavior is a major annoyance and continues to represent the potential for a significant safety risk. I urge those riding early-production CRW wheels to think twice. I know I know..... queue up the choir of people saying they don't have this problem and it is fine. I'm just saying think twice. I never had a Rapide CLX1 blow apart from riding it tubeless but after a couple of well known events I decided to not become another. That's all. Think twice and assess your risk as you see fit.

If this design flaw has been fixed by CRW, how do those of us with early production wheels get replacements? I hope CRW will stand behind its products.

If not, I'm done with them.

I appreciate your post. I've been on the fence on buying these wheels for some time, specifically because of the issue noted. I often do high speed descents (50+mph) and can't imaging what it would be like to flat AND lose the bead at that speed. I once had a sudden front flat (sliced tire) at about 30mph in the middle of the paceline and almost lost it... but that was with a GP5000 on CLX1 wheels and with zero pressure the bead held strong. I've officially decided I won't be buying these wheels. The risk just isn't worth it to me.

Agreed. These are not truly tubeless compatible if the bead doesn't stay securely locked on to the rim. Definitely off my short list until properly resolved.

If you don't want to use the Craft wheels, then don't. I and many others see no issues with them. They're tubeless compatible to me. If your requirements aren't met (with any product), then don't buy it.

[Kevin7767]

Seeing road cycling and "risk aversion" mix is strange.

By that mindset you should definitely try riding hookless wheels & tires at 120psi down a steep hill on a hot day. If you don't do it you must be strange.

[bobones]

If you don't want to use the Craft wheels, then don't. I and many others see no issues with them. They're tubeless compatible to me. If your requirements aren't met (with any product), then don't buy it.

Don't worry, I won't be while this problem exists. No need to get all defensive about it. The way you've responded is like I am not even supposed to talk about it on a thread specifically about these wheels

[allrandomletters]

By that mindset, shouldnt ride anything at all if the standard is no reports of issues, not ever, for any reason, for anything, to anyone, for any reason, ever, no matter what, no matter where, or who, or who you are with, or where you are going, or where you've been, ever, for any reason whatsoever.

[bobones]

By that mindset, shouldnt ride anything at all if the standard is no reports of issues, not ever, for any reason, for anything, to anyone, for any reason, ever, no matter what, no matter where, or who, or who you are with, or where you are going, or where you've been, ever, for any reason whatsoever.

WTF? Tyres unseating on deflation has been reported by a number of owners of these wheels in this thread, and that's enough to put me off buying them because it's a serious issue for tubeless users that significantly increases your crash risk or can leave you stranded at the side of the road. I'd like to think that Joe would rather know that continuing reports of this issue is a deal breaker for some and receive constructive feedback than hear nothing but praise from fanboys and happy clappers.

[spdntrxi]

not quite but getting to Zipp353 NSW level...

[pushpush]

Sort of batch responding to a couple posts above....


I don't think anyone here is risk-averse. However, knowing where and what risks exist allows individuals to better manage their overall risk profile. Some risks are inherent to an activity, while others may be avoided. In my opinion, this particular situation falls into the latter category of an avoidable risk. None of the other wheels I have owned or presently own display the behavior of dropping tires when the tire deflates. In fact every other wheelset is kind of a pain in the ass to get these tires loose from the hooks. That is what I expect.

Many people survive bike crashes without a helmet. We know that helmets reduce injury and death. I wear a helmet. I don't view that as risk-averse. I view that as good decision-making based on the available information.

I'll also point out that this issue has been consistent for me for some time. Different tape, different sealant, and a series of different tires (all gp5k 700x28, but from different sources/batches) have consistently displayed this behavior. It does not appear to be a fluke occurrence. This is the second time I've experienced a problem while on a ride. The first time I did manage to get the tire seated again. Somewhat counterintuitively, I got lucky that time because my sealant was old and kind of dried out and it helped seal the tire enough to inflate. While changing sealant or tires at home the behavior has been consistent but not problematic because I have a compressor. I've managed to convince myself it wasn't worth worrying about. Truthfully, I have a sunk cost in these wheels and I WANT them to be better than they are. This is a good recipe for making poor decisions like continuing to ride equipment that has a known deficiency.

Applying bandaids like more tape or a foam insert are bandaids that add weight and complexity which further diminish the core value proposition of the wheels. You are right, those are options, but they should be options rather than necessities for proper function.

I know this doesn't happen for everyone. I understand and respect that. If these wheels are working for you with whatever tires you are using that is awesome. Keep doing what you are doing. That has not been my experience, and the potential for someone to have the experience that I have had does exist. I think it is nice to know what one might experience before making a large purchase like a wheelset, just in case. No need for anyone to be defensive.

That's all. I didn't scream from the mountain top that no one should ride these wheels. That is not what I think. I shared real information from a real event so others can make a more informed decision about what risks they want to accept. Even if it doesn't result in injury it does result in annoyance and inconvenience. I think a lot of people would prefer to avoid that.

[Nickldn]

I'm the one who originally raised the issue with tyres coming off the beads and falling into the centre channel.

I have been riding the CRW 5060's for quite some time now and fortunately haven't had a puncture resulting in fast deflation.

My view is that usually tubless tyres deflate relatively slowly once punctured and blow outs are rare (unless you're on hookless Zipps). But if you're descending at high speed and are unlucky enough to experience a tubless blow-out then I would suggest it is unlikely that any tubless wheel would retain the tyre on the bead, the forces involved are just too high for that. That is not what tubless beads are designed to do. However, what hooked wheels are designed to do is retain the tyre on the rim so that you can come to a stop. This is where Zipp hookless and its brethren fall down.

I think if you're risk averse then get air liners for your tubless wheels, else ride tubulars.

[bobones]

Forgetting blow outs and all that, the main issue with tyres dropping off the rim is just the PITA factor. I deflate my tyres to add sealant to through the valve so having them unseat fully laden with sealant is a recipe for mess when blowing them back on. I also don't want them popping off out on the road if I'm trying to plug a hole then having to pray a CO2 will get them back on, or worse, having to fit a tube.

[Torbjorn]

Lol, allrandomletters and LanceLegstrong all bent out of shape and insecure because someone reports problems with the product they have bought, classic!

[LanceLegstrong]

If you don't want to use the Craft wheels, then don't. I and many others see no issues with them. They're tubeless compatible to me. If your requirements aren't met (with any product), then don't buy it.

Don't worry, I won't be while this problem exists. No need to get all defensive about it. The way you've responded is like I am not even supposed to talk about it on a thread specifically about these wheels

The way you've responded is like it's a huge problem that plagues everybody that rides these wheels when in reality it's a non-issue outside this thread.

Just seems like fear mongering.