Hookless and updated ISO Standards - Thomas De Gendt Crash

[BigBoyND]

This is more like buying or modifying your old car with products that are no longer legal. We're not talking taking Zipp wheels away, as your analogy would suggest.

There is no legal reason to fix things if they were considered safe when manufactured/assembled. But going forward you can't apply old rules if they've changed.

[EtoDemerzel]

@Jaisen we all read the article and responded. I'm afraid this is at least the second circle in discussion but I guess that's the way of forums.

you can put your spin on it but ISO standard has been updated for nearly a year and Zipp currently has two safety standards. There are so many inconsitencies already pointed out besides that and your trying to draw a parallel to car safety just further proves the problem hookless has.

A more correct parallel would be two new cars sold, side by side.
Choice A: with two different tire/wheel safety standards and onus the consumer to pick only the specific tire recommended even though it is not NHTSA approved, or risk blow off.
With the car company stating it's the tire company's fault if it does, and not them. Even though it has had many blow offs.

Choice B: The other choice, no thought needed. Just add air to recommened psi. Replace with any tire of your choice when time comes.

No performance difference, no mpg difference. No cost savings to the consumer between the two.

If you want to draw automotive parallels, as discussed earlier, in the same circumstances, there would be a NHTSA recall of the product and class action lawsuits already.

[MikeD]

ISO standard has 1.1 safety factor and 28 vs 29 tyres are being discussed as 1mm could be determining factor between riding safely and tyre spontaniously blowing off. I mean, tyres labeled same width from different manufacturers vary by more than that. I think that says a lot about hookless. Hooked wheel will always be safer than hookless counterpart.

The ISO standard seems like a work in progress. That 1.1 safety factor should be 1.5. Otherwise, it's a joke.

[Jaisen]

ISO standard has 1.1 safety factor and 28 vs 29 tyres are being discussed as 1mm could be determining factor between riding safely and tyre spontaniously blowing off. I mean, tyres labeled same width from different manufacturers vary by more than that. I think that says a lot about hookless. Hooked wheel will always be safer than hookless counterpart.

The ISO standard seems like a work in progress. That 1.1 safety factor should be 1.5. Otherwise, it's a joke.

It is 1.5 for hooked rims, somehow it got lowered for hookless.

[Spaetzle]

I have another ZIPP 303s question.

I have mounted 32mm Rene Herse Stampede Pass with TPUs. I have a spare pair Conti GP 5000 AS TR. I could get The 35mm RH Jon Bon.

So which setup would you go with.

1. Stampede Pass with TPUs
2. Contis tubeless
3. Jon Bon pass tubeless

The RH look much nicer than the Contis. Don't know if tubeless has a big advantage in regards to safety than the TPU option. 35mm Jon Bon Pass would allow me to run tubeless with lower pressure but I would have to spent another 150€ on tires.

[MikeD]

I have another ZIPP 303s question.

I have mounted 32mm Rene Herse Stampede Pass with TPUs. I have a spare pair Conti GP 5000 AS TR. I could get The 35mm RH Jon Bon.

So which setup would you go with.

1. Stampede Pass with TPUs
2. Contis tubeless
3. Jon Bon pass tubeless

The RH look much nicer than the Contis. Don't know if tubeless has a big advantage in regards to safety than the TPU option. 35mm Jon Bon Pass would allow me to run tubeless with lower pressure but I would have to spent another 150€ on tires.

I my opinion, RH tires don't work well tubeless. Go with the Contis.

[spdntrxi]

303s is TL only according to Zipp.. so. you have to used their approved TL tires.

unless ReneH has updated Stampede Pass recently.. that is a clincher so that is a no from Zipp point of view.

[Spaetzle]

The Stampede Pass is compatible but you are right, it's not allowed to be run tubeless. Thus, I intended to run them with TPUs. Should be theoretically ok but the question is: is there an even higher risk for a blowout with TPUs vs tubeless setup with Contis.

[spdntrxi]

Zipp loses me....

I have old Zipp 404/808 of old firecrest design (rimbrake).. I'm not comfortable with Zipp when it comes to hookless/tubeless.

[mikehhhhhhh]

I have another ZIPP 303s question.

I have mounted 32mm Rene Herse Stampede Pass with TPUs. I have a spare pair Conti GP 5000 AS TR. I could get The 35mm RH Jon Bon.

So which setup would you go with.

1. Stampede Pass with TPUs
2. Contis tubeless
3. Jon Bon pass tubeless

The RH look much nicer than the Contis. Don't know if tubeless has a big advantage in regards to safety than the TPU option. 35mm Jon Bon Pass would allow me to run tubeless with lower pressure but I would have to spent another 150€ on tires.

Conti tubeless. It's a fantastic tyre and it's tubeless.

[usr]

Two sets of standards for consumers and for pros would not even be all that odd if the problem in question was reasonably related to the safety of keeping riding with deflated tires. One group does, the other really does not (and those who love emulating pro behavior more than they love their wheels would never ever consider not following "pro level" safety standards, no matter how non-pro their performance). But I really don't think the different width minima are.

If it was e.g. about maximum rider weight for different strength level wheels, I'd consider it perfectly reasonable: "strength M wheels are for riders up to 75 kg, or up to 60 kg o3f they are pro (or indulge in emulating pro behavior)"

[RadB]

ISO standard has 1.1 safety factor and 28 vs 29 tyres are being discussed as 1mm could be determining factor between riding safely and tyre spontaniously blowing off. I mean, tyres labeled same width from different manufacturers vary by more than that. I think that says a lot about hookless. Hooked wheel will always be safer than hookless counterpart.

The ISO standard seems like a work in progress. That 1.1 safety factor should be 1.5. Otherwise, it's a joke.

It is 1.5 for hooked rims, somehow it got lowered for hookless.

Because they wouldn't have passed if it were any higher, duh.

[JayDee81]

This discussion is so trash.
Thing is that the Zipp wheels have been around for two or three years and people generally didn't have a problem with them.
Then the new ISO standard comes and within a short while the De Gendt's crash and suddenly people go crazy because of a *f##k* number on a piece of paper.

[mikehhhhhhh]

This discussion is so trash.
Thing is that the Zipp wheels have been around for two or three years and people generally didn't have a problem with them.
Then the new ISO standard comes and within a short while the De Gendt's crash and suddenly people go crazy because of a *f##k* number on a piece of paper.

Nail on the head.

[AJS914]

You two would be wrong. People have been reporting blow offs for years now. It takes a high profile cases to get attention and make Zipp backpedal on their 28mm tire on 25mm internal wide rims.