Tarmac SL8 5.835kg New Pics Page 3

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da123
Posts: 506
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:42 am

by da123

Matte86 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2024 11:53 am
da123 wrote:
Matte86 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2024 5:34 am
da123 wrote:Finally had chance to ride my SL8 - only 5 months after getting it. 103 mile ride on Saturday, and 81 mile ride today. My legs were a bit frazzled on today's ride, but based on both rides, I definitely have no regrets. As others have said, it is very similar to the SL7, but the cumulative marginal improvements combined make for a materially better overall bike IMO. It is definitely stiffer, both through the BB and the bars, and has the lively reactive feel of a really lightweight climbing bike (the SL7 was getting there in this respect, but still felt a little dead to me. Not as much as my Madone, but the feeling was still there. The SL8 does away with this completely, and just encourages you to accelerate and have fun). What is impressive is that it combines that lightweight 'feel' with great flat speed. I rode my CRW4045s on the first ride, and my CRW5060s on the second. It felt fast and aero with both wheelsets (for what its worth, the 4045s are a better overall wheelset IMO). I wouldn't say it is noticeably better than the SL7 in the flat speed stakes. Comfort wise, I was impressed. Both CRW wheelsets are quite a bit stiffer than the wheelsets I used on my SL7 (Roval Rapides, Roval Alpinists and Extralite C338), however the SL8 is at least as comfortable as the SL7.

I would never claim that the improvements are objectively 'night and day', and I very much doubt anyone would be materially (or even at all) 'faster' on the SL8 vs the SL7. The big difference is that it is just so much fun to ride. Up, down, on the flat, it just delivers and puts a big smile on your face, and that's worth a lot IMO.

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I’ve just moved all parts from an SL7 to an SL8, so still running the CLX I (waiting for some carbon spokes wheels) but I agree with your assessment/ comparison
How do you rate the front shifting with CarbonTi rings? Do you feel more sluggish or less direct than original DA rings?
How about those GP5000 TT?
Thanks
The front shifting isn't more sluggish. It is possibly a bit less 'refined' but it is still top quality shifting. It doesn't hesitate and you don't feel like its struggling to move rings. I can't comment on longevity of the TT TLRs after so few miles, but they are a very fast and supple feeling tire. Even if they don't last as long as the S TR, provided there are no major puncture issues, I think I'll run them as 'everyday'. At the moment, I have the TT TLR on both front and rear of the CRW 4045s, but just on the front of the CRW5060s (STR on the rear).
Thanks for your reply
How come did you end up with a S TR on the rear of the 5060?
Planning on running the TT as well, so by the time my wheels arrive you have more miles on them and give more feedback / reassurance Image
The decision on the S TR for the rear was because my plan is to run the 5060s as my 'everyday' wheelset, whilst the 4045s will be for overseas holidays / big climbing days. I therefore wanted something with more durability / puncture protection on the rear. Having now ridden both wheelsets and preferred the 4045s, I don't know if I'll keep that configuration or not. I need to put more more miles on the TTs to determine how well they resist punctures. If it is just a case that they do less miles before wearing out but aren't otherwise too fragile, I'll probably just go TT all round on both wheelsets, though they are almost double the price...

Matte86
Posts: 410
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:23 pm

by Matte86

da123 wrote:
Matte86 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2024 11:53 am
da123 wrote:
Matte86 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2024 5:34 am
I’ve just moved all parts from an SL7 to an SL8, so still running the CLX I (waiting for some carbon spokes wheels) but I agree with your assessment/ comparison
How do you rate the front shifting with CarbonTi rings? Do you feel more sluggish or less direct than original DA rings?
How about those GP5000 TT?
Thanks
The front shifting isn't more sluggish. It is possibly a bit less 'refined' but it is still top quality shifting. It doesn't hesitate and you don't feel like its struggling to move rings. I can't comment on longevity of the TT TLRs after so few miles, but they are a very fast and supple feeling tire. Even if they don't last as long as the S TR, provided there are no major puncture issues, I think I'll run them as 'everyday'. At the moment, I have the TT TLR on both front and rear of the CRW 4045s, but just on the front of the CRW5060s (STR on the rear).
Thanks for your reply
How come did you end up with a S TR on the rear of the 5060?
Planning on running the TT as well, so by the time my wheels arrive you have more miles on them and give more feedback / reassurance Image
The decision on the S TR for the rear was because my plan is to run the 5060s as my 'everyday' wheelset, whilst the 4045s will be for overseas holidays / big climbing days. I therefore wanted something with more durability / puncture protection on the rear. Having now ridden both wheelsets and preferred the 4045s, I don't know if I'll keep that configuration or not. I need to put more more miles on the TTs to determine how well they resist punctures. If it is just a case that they do less miles before wearing out but aren't otherwise too fragile, I'll probably just go TT all round on both wheelsets, though they are almost double the price...
Thanks

by Weenie


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Beancouter
Posts: 1120
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:04 pm

by Beancouter

OtterSpace wrote:great tip and I agree and do the same to try to avoid paying more for standard Ti bolts. Calipers are very useful too as are wall mounted thread checkers to confirm thread pitch which the above tool can't do.

From what I've seen the following bolts are generally standard or close enough to substitute:
Top cap (Might use a counter sunk head)
Stem
FD mount bolt (not washer)
Mechanical shifting under bb cable routing bolt
Frame hole cover bolts
Rear disc caliper mounting bolt
Standard two bolt seatpost bolts
computer mount bolts
gopro mount bolts and nut
Seatpost clamp bolts (check headsize for clearance)
Front disc caliper mounting bolt to frame through adapter if needed

The following items are fairly easy to find individually due to shared bolts between bikes but they are typically not purely standard non bike parts:
Front disc caliper mounting bolt to mounting adapter (needs the right counter sunk head)
Derailleur hanger mount bolts if used (Might use a counter sunk head)
Standard two bolt seatpost round nuts
Shifter clamp bolt and nut
FD washer
Disc pad bolt
Disc caliper hose nut
Disc shifter hose nut
H L adjusters
Rim caliper pivot bolt
Jockey wheel bolts (confirm exact fit for your exact RD cage)
Disc shifter bleed nut (heavier not worth buying)
Shimano crank preload bolt (heavier not worth buying)
B link bolt (from what I've read heavier and not worth buying but I haven't confirmed)

The following items generally require more specific larger kits:
Disc caliper bleed ports and or on off flow bolts
Disc caliper bolts that connect between caliper halfs and pass through fluid
One bolt seatpost clamp parts for specific bikes
Rim brake bolt kits
Cleat bolt washers
@otterspace
I assume you have swapped your bolts out? Was it on Shimano and do you know where the best savings are (other than lever clamps)?


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OtterSpace
Posts: 384
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 6:28 am
Location: California Silicon Valley

by OtterSpace

Beancouter wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2024 10:58 am
@otterspace
I assume you have swapped your bolts out? Was it on Shimano and do you know where the best savings are (other than lever clamps)?
I swapped most of my bolts on Shimano 12s hydro. In general I wouldn't recommed doing so unless you are chasing the last 15g or so for an all out build to to hit a weight target. Also useful if you are going for a specific color build and want an extra splash of color.

I like tinkering so I wanted to engage with it to better understand the process. The slower and more deliberately you change out bolts the better as then you are just buying what you need but its a huge pain. If you do it right you remove the bolts, check their length, tread type, head diameter, install them back on your bike, buy a Ti replacement, wait, and then swap. Again not recommended for most people.

Regarding weight savings they basically track as a % saving over steel so the bigger the bolt the bigger the total savings. Al bolts are even lighter than Ti but are too weak for certain applications. This should go without saying but Ti is also heavier than plastic so items like Shimano non drive side crank arm preload assemblies are heavier in Ti than stock.

The best savings are in flat mount bolts which are a standard bolt. If you want the pin attachment mechanism in the bolt there is an ebay seller who has them. If you want different colors others have other options.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115972804110

The next best savings are the bolts that hold 2 part calipers together and the bolts that attach Shimano, SRAM, and everyone but Campag "140 rear" calipers to a front adapter plate to mount to the fork. There are also savings to be had in the fork adapter plate for such calipers.

Last items I could recommend are the hose nuts at the caliper and shifter. After that you get into sub 1g savings per bolt.

This is just focused on groupset not including the crank. Al screws are good enough for bottle cages, and there are tons of savings in most seatposts but seatposts require more specific research as they have different designs.

Importantly if you strip or snap a Ti bolt getting it out will suck so again not recommended for most people.

Beancouter
Posts: 1120
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:04 pm

by Beancouter

OtterSpace wrote:
Beancouter wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2024 10:58 am
@otterspace
I assume you have swapped your bolts out? Was it on Shimano and do you know where the best savings are (other than lever clamps)?
I swapped most of my bolts on Shimano 12s hydro. In general I wouldn't recommed doing so unless you are chasing the last 15g or so for an all out build to to hit a weight target. Also useful if you are going for a specific color build and want an extra splash of color.

I like tinkering so I wanted to engage with it to better understand the process. The slower and more deliberately you change out bolts the better as then you are just buying what you need but its a huge pain. If you do it right you remove the bolts, check their length, tread type, head diameter, install them back on your bike, buy a Ti replacement, wait, and then swap. Again not recommended for most people.

Regarding weight savings they basically track as a % saving over steel so the bigger the bolt the bigger the total savings. Al bolts are even lighter than Ti but are too weak for certain applications. This should go without saying but Ti is also heavier than plastic so items like Shimano non drive side crank arm preload assemblies are heavier in Ti than stock.

The best savings are in flat mount bolts which are a standard bolt. If you want the pin attachment mechanism in the bolt there is an ebay seller who has them. If you want different colors others have other options.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115972804110

The next best savings are the bolts that hold 2 part calipers together and the bolts that attach Shimano, SRAM, and everyone but Campag "140 rear" calipers to a front adapter plate to mount to the fork. There are also savings to be had in the fork adapter plate for such calipers.

Last items I could recommend are the hose nuts at the caliper and shifter. After that you get into sub 1g savings per bolt.

This is just focused on groupset not including the crank. Al screws are good enough for bottle cages, and there are tons of savings in most seatposts but seatposts require more specific research as they have different designs.

Importantly if you strip or snap a Ti bolt getting it out will suck so again not recommended for most people.
Thank you!


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da123
Posts: 506
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:42 am

by da123

Aryeh wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2024 8:41 pm
Do you have an opinion on the GP5K TT tires yet?
Now that I've put approx 400 miles on the TT TLRs, I can give an initial view:

- speed : they do feel perceptibly faster than a standard GP5000 clincher with TPU tubes. On a par with Corsa Speeds for sure.
- ride feel : they don't feel as supple as a Vittoria or a Veloflex tire. I have some Tufo Comtura Prima as well, and they also edge the TT TLRs for ride feel. That's not to say they feel 'wooden', it's just a bit 'meh' in terms of ride feel. They do deal with UK roads well however, and do a decent job smoothing less than perfect surfaces.
- set up / air retention : pretty easy to set up, and air retention is very good. So good in fact, that I've actually ridden them for 200 miles of the 400 without any sealant at all... To be clear, this was my incompetence / terrible memory rather than a conscious decision. Certainly much better than the Tufos in this respect.
- puncture protection : touch wood, they have been fine so far, even without any sealant 🤦‍♂️. It is still too early to wax lyrical about how good it is though. I'm sure like any tire they'll have a mileage tipping point where they start to puncture much more frequently. They do, however, feel a good bit less fragile than Corsa Speeds (which I gave up on in the end).
- Durability : still too early to say. No visible cuts / damage / wear so far, but early days.

Overall, happy with them so far. Can / should you use them as an everyday tire? I suspect like with anything there's no 'free lunch', but with how they've performed for me to date, they make a better case for this than any other 'TT" / 'race day only' tire I've used (Pirelli P-zero TT, Maxxis Highroad SL, Vittoria Corsa Speed).

Matte86
Posts: 410
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:23 pm

by Matte86

da123 wrote:
Aryeh wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2024 8:41 pm
Do you have an opinion on the GP5K TT tires yet?
Now that I've put approx 400 miles on the TT TLRs, I can give an initial view:

- speed : they do feel perceptibly faster than a standard GP5000 clincher with TPU tubes. On a par with Corsa Speeds for sure.
- ride feel : they don't feel as supple as a Vittoria or a Veloflex tire. I have some Tufo Comtura Prima as well, and they also edge the TT TLRs for ride feel. That's not to say they feel 'wooden', it's just a bit 'meh' in terms of ride feel. They do deal with UK roads well however, and do a decent job smoothing less than perfect surfaces.
- set up / air retention : pretty easy to set up, and air retention is very good. So good in fact, that I've actually ridden them for 200 miles of the 400 without any sealant at all... To be clear, this was my incompetence / terrible memory rather than a conscious decision. Certainly much better than the Tufos in this respect.
- puncture protection : touch wood, they have been fine so far, even without any sealant Image. It is still too early to wax lyrical about how good it is though. I'm sure like any tire they'll have a mileage tipping point where they start to puncture much more frequently. They do, however, feel a good bit less fragile than Corsa Speeds (which I gave up on in the end).
- Durability : still too early to say. No visible cuts / damage / wear so far, but early days.

Overall, happy with them so far. Can / should you use them as an everyday tire? I suspect like with anything there's no 'free lunch', but with how they've performed for me to date, they make a better case for this than any other 'TT" / 'race day only' tire I've used (Pirelli P-zero TT, Maxxis Highroad SL, Vittoria Corsa Speed).
Thanks for sharing
I was looking forward to the new Corsa Pro Speed, for being supple, but it seems they cannot be use as a ‘daily’ tyre as you mentioned for these TTs
I have hope in the new Enve Race Day as being a viable alternative.. let’s wait BRR test

CustomMetal
Moderator
Posts: 1355
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:14 pm
Location: UK

by CustomMetal

How are you finding the THM? Would you be happy using it on a bike designed for 200-350 mile solo days? Weighing up wether to stick with the stock DA hub on an new endurance build
Allegra- Steel Lugs TBC
Alya- Ti Climbing TBC
Bertha- TT 9.8kg
Matilda - Ti/Carbon Race TBC
Perdita- Ti Turbo bike 8kg
Serenity- Ti Gravel 9.5kg/8.9kg
Verity- Ti Aero 8.2kg


All weights with pedals,cages & garmin mount

da123
Posts: 506
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:42 am

by da123

CustomMetal wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2024 9:22 pm
How are you finding the THM? Would you be happy using it on a bike designed for 200-350 mile solo days? Weighing up wether to stick with the stock DA hub on an new endurance build
'DA hub'? I assume you mean BB? I've used Clavicula cranks for many years now, and generally found them to be trouble free. I guess it does depend on what sort of weather conditions you're riding in too, as I tend to steer clear of very wet conditions if I can help it. I think like the cranks that the BB is a well evolved and nicely engineered product. It isn't superlight, but that suggests to me that they've not chased weight savings over all else, which is quite re-assuring. I doubt its completely bombproof, but I'm a high mileage rider and like I say, I've not experienced any major issues in using THM cranks and BBs for the last 10 years.

mike
Resident Pro
Posts: 3068
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 9:42 pm

by mike

CustomMetal wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2024 9:22 pm
How are you finding the THM? Would you be happy using it on a bike designed for 200-350 mile solo days? Weighing up wether to stick with the stock DA hub on an new endurance build
dura ace is a better crank for all conditions and worry free use. thm takes some constant monitoring to ensure nothing slips/ moves out of place.

da123
Posts: 506
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:42 am

by da123

mike wrote:
Tue May 07, 2024 2:16 pm
CustomMetal wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2024 9:22 pm
How are you finding the THM? Would you be happy using it on a bike designed for 200-350 mile solo days? Weighing up wether to stick with the stock DA hub on an new endurance build
dura ace is a better crank for all conditions and worry free use. thm takes some constant monitoring to ensure nothing slips/ moves out of place.
I don't disagree that if your priorities are fit and forget and bombproof super slick operation, DA is a better choice. This could be said of the majority of weight weenie products though. My personal experience hasn't been that constant monitoring is required, provided you don't try and mix and match with non-THM BBs. They need to be checked after the first 100 miles or so for the preload, but THM specify this in their instructions. Only you know whether the (relatively small IMO) downsides are worth the 200g plus weight saving. As far as any weight weenie product with really extreme low weight goes, THM cranks (as evidenced by the amount of users) are up there with the best I think.

da123
Posts: 506
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:42 am

by da123

Couple of updates:

1. GP5000 TT TLR tires - these now have around 1200 miles on them. Very little noticeable wear on the front. Some wear on the rear, but not nicks / cuts etc. I've not noticed any evidence that the sealant has had to do its job. The roads around me are far from perfect tarmac, so they've seen lots of mixed use. As previously noted, they obviously won't last as long as an S TR, but don't seem anywhere near as fragile as Corsa Speeds.

2. Chain Waxing! - Switched to waxed chains, using Silca's system. Prepped 5 chains - 3 dura ace and 2 YBN rainbow, and have been rotating them (not particularly out of necessity, just because I wanted to get used to how it would all work and compare). I previously used Silca's Synergetic lube, which is - IMO - the best wet lube out there by a mile. Pleased with how it's all gone so far. There is time involved in getting it all set up, but once that's done and you have a number of chains ready to go, the ongoing work is minimal. Cleanliness is great, and chain noise wise it is on a par with a wet lubed chain. Can't vouch for efficiency gains of course, but it feels very smooth.

V35
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2023 7:26 am

by V35

How is the quality of shifting holding up with the carbon chainrings?

da123
Posts: 506
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:42 am

by da123

V35 wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2024 2:17 am
How is the quality of shifting holding up with the carbon chainrings?
Shifting quality is very good. I suspect not quite as slick as with DA chainrings, but no missed shifts or hesitation. The fact that Pogacar uses carbon-ti rings on his set up should provide a lot of confidence I think. If the pros are willing to use them, then the reliability / consistency has to be there, particularly as there is no massive weight saving over other options. I probably have circa 10,000 miles on the set I'm using, and I've not noticed any deterioration in shift quality.

V35
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2023 7:26 am

by V35

That's encouraging to hear, thank you for the feedback.

by Weenie


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