Moots Vamoots CRD

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Konsi
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Location: Genève
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by Konsi

kode54 wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2024 10:08 am
Konsi wrote:
kode54 wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2024 2:25 pm
How do you like the CRD ride besides the descending PRs? I always liked my RSL Disc but it was heavy overall.
Hello,

I am probably not the most qualified to fully answer this, I have only been road cycling since 2019, and I am no Tom Pidcock. So first, what is my baseline? I have ridden the following other bikes previously (some through a store)
- Merlin Inferno (19000km, 8.4kg in the most used configuration) Ultegra Di2 11s, 55mm carbon wheels
- Scott Foil RC (12000km, 7.2kg) Dura Ace 12s, 65mm PCW wheels
- Scott Addict RC (~1800km, 7.0kg) Dura Ace Di2 11s, 40mm DTSwiss wheels
- Sarto Lampo Plus (~250km, 8.xkg) Sram Red, Mavic 45mm wheels
- Sarto Seta Plus (~200km, 8.xkg) Campa Super Record EPS, Campa Bora wheels

Due to some issues with the CK wheels, I have ridden the Moots with three different sets of wheels, the original Chris King 44mm (about 250km), the PCW 65mm from my Scott Foil (about 2400km), and now the PCW in 55mm (1200km). The wheels definitely make a difference, although the two PCW sets are much closer to each other in feeling than to the CK.

A final caveat – the Moots is a custom geo, modeled after my Scott Foil fit, while the Sartos were their standard M frame geometry (back when they still did it).

So here are my impressions, slightly unsorted
- My Moots is not too heavy, between the Merlin and the Scott Foil. It is probably slightly slower uphills, but doesn't feel like it (unlike the Merlin and the Sartos). It is also stiff enough for some out of the saddle efforts.
- The ride quality is great. Very comfortable, smooth, also on long rides. My third ride with the Moots was 255km/5800m+, with the 65mm PCWs and 25mm tires, and while I was struggling for other reasons, it was nothing about not being able to sit in the saddle anymore. Part of that is probably due to the excellent shape of the Enve handlebars (although they are the narrowest of all my bikes).
- This is especially noticeable on less than perfect surfaces. Bad tarmac, used-to-be-paved roads, a little bit of gravel, cobbled streets, it doesn't slow me down as much as with the other bikes.
- Due to the custom geometry mine has a quite long front center, so the front wheel doesn't accidentally lifts off the ground when accelerating on a climb. This was especially an issue for me with the Sarto Seta, and to some extent the Lampo. The long stem probably helps, too. The back end is quite short comparatively, the chain stays cannot be any shorter for 30mm (measured 31.5) tires, otherwise they'd touch the seattube.
- The confidence-inspiring handling on downhills was already mentioned. That is more about cornering than max speed (with all the bikes above I have hit 75km/h, with those I have ridden longer periods also 90km/h), and also applies to false flat/rolling hills sections. I quite enjoyed descending with my Scott Foil, and never felt as if it wasn't stable enough (unlike the Merlin and the Sartos), so I was quite surprised by the times I had on downhills with the Moots.
- I am most at ease riding hands free on the Moots of all the bikes listed above.
- This goes a bit beyond ride quality, but is a big part of why I would pick the Moots if I had to choose only one bike, I am less worried about breaking or damaging a titanium frame. Small gravel bits thrown up? Taking it on a train? It gives me a certain peace of mind that a carbon frame with nice paint doesn't.

I hope this helps?

Kind regards

Konstantin
Thx for your detailed comments. I suppose it’s more of a titanium related vs. Carbon related ride quality. And since you had a custom geo done, it’s hard to quantify vs. their standard geo sizing.

I had a Moots RSL Disc with standard stock geo. It ride well and descended even better. My curiosity lies with the RSL vs. CRD differences. Im not certain many RSL owners feel compelled to move to CRD with the exception of a wider tire fitment?
For wider tires, you would need to move to the Moots Vamoots RCS, the CRD takes max 32mm measured.

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kode54
Posts: 3769
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:39 pm

by kode54

Yeah. The first RSL Disc models are fine with 28mm tires. I had 30mm in but rubbed slightly on the chain stays. 32mm would be my max for the ti bike when used for winter for bad weather riding.
- Factor Ostro VAM Disc
- Factor LS Disc
- Specialized Aethos Disc
- Sturdy Ti Allroad Disc
- Guru Praemio R Disc

Quickdraw
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South of the Republic of Boulder.

by Quickdraw

kode54 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2024 4:10 pm
Yeah. The first RSL Disc models are fine with 28mm tires. I had 30mm in but rubbed slightly on the chain stays. 32mm would be my max for the ti bike when used for winter for bad weather riding.
I have a Moots Vamoots RSL Disc from about 2019 and I am able to run tires measuring 32mm with a comfortable margin for clearance. There appears to be about 4 mm or more of clearance between a 32mm tire and the drive-side chainstay.

The Vamoots CRD has me kind of scratching my head. Many people are attracted to Moots due to the old-school, non-fussy nature of the frames they make. Running the lines through the stem and the steerer tube seems like a move in the wrong direction. It over-complicates something that is loved for its simplicity. (Note that the RCS has different geometry, is not available with T47 it would appear, so you can't just say, "If you don't like it, get an RCS.")

Also, when I purchased my Vamoots RSL Disc I asked about the possibility of a T47 bottom bracket. I needed something with a larger shell as I was running DI2 wires through the bottom bracket and a standard bottom bracket (English threaded) starts to get too small. If I recall, they laughed at me and said they would never sell a bike with a T47 bottom bracket. They said that the shell size was comparable to a pf30, but once you put threads in the shell it had to have much thicker walls, thereby making it much heavier. Again, if I recall, they also said that T47 was essentially a passing fad and would not be widely adopted. What bottom bracket standard is used on the Vamoots CRD? That is a rhetorical question.

I love Moots frames and currently have 4 Moots bikes. I wish they would embrace what makes them unique and not try to chase silly ideas. Some of the updates they made to the CRD were good ones. The adoption of brake lines running through the stem and steerer tube...not so much. My prediction is that this will go the route of the integrated seatpost, at least for people looking for a practical bike where they are less concerned about aerodynamics.

I also wish that they would post the price of a frameset on their website (They post numorous prices for fully built bikes, but that is probably not how many long-term/advanced cyclists approach a build). It seems like they are playing "hide the ball" on price. Just tell us.

kode54
Posts: 3769
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:39 pm

by kode54

I have external hydro routing on my RSL Disc and still like that. One thing about any Moots is the precision…everything fits perfectly and purposefully. I do like the Moots but I modified my Guru so much as a side project that it’s become a frakenbike more or less. Excellent insight on your part. Thx.
- Factor Ostro VAM Disc
- Factor LS Disc
- Specialized Aethos Disc
- Sturdy Ti Allroad Disc
- Guru Praemio R Disc

jadedaid
Posts: 196
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:43 pm

by jadedaid

This is a beautiful bike, great to see a Moots properly decked out in go-fast gear. Happy to hear that they will still do custom geometry, when I asked about this for my Routt RSL back in 2022 they oddly and rudely told that they don't want to do that (and I've bought a custom geometry RSL Disc from them). From the 2 frames I have from them, the welding on the custom frame is also noticeably better than on the stock geo.

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