Velobuild VB-R-066 (do not buy from them)

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kroem
Posts: 379
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:37 pm

by kroem

BB86 is just too "small" for DUB/30mm cranks, that's the core of the problem.
Canyon Ultimate SLX 6.7kg (crashed/dead)
Tantan/Winow GR039 7.2kg
All-City Space Horse (scrapped, for now)
Waltly Gravel (stolen... :evil: )
PX Spitfire Ti

by Weenie


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vTuga
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:37 am

by vTuga

kroem wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:22 am
BB86 is just too "small" for DUB/30mm cranks, that's the core of the problem.
In theory, yes. But I havent seen reports of wide spread problems. Also, DUB was in part developed by SRAM to address compatibility with BB86.

Hopefully I don't get issues with my build.

kroem
Posts: 379
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:37 pm

by kroem

vTuga wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:05 am
kroem wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:22 am
BB86 is just too "small" for DUB/30mm cranks, that's the core of the problem.
In theory, yes. But I havent seen reports of wide spread problems. Also, DUB was in part developed by SRAM to address compatibility with BB86.

Hopefully I don't get issues with my build.
Correct, that the theory why it's bad. It works, not a problem, but there's probably better solutions out there :)
Canyon Ultimate SLX 6.7kg (crashed/dead)
Tantan/Winow GR039 7.2kg
All-City Space Horse (scrapped, for now)
Waltly Gravel (stolen... :evil: )
PX Spitfire Ti

worstje
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:28 pm

by worstje

timeout93 wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:54 pm
Hi worstje,

you're welcome :) If I remember correctly, this frame is also available from other manufacturers. OG-EVKIN makes a similar frame, although the tyre clearance is only up to 28c as advertised.

For your questions:
1. I have never installed or removed the headset, but I could not find anything negative. Also with the BB I could not find anything. Have both but also not remeasured, I also do not have suitable tools for it. Therefore, I can unfortunately say nothing about it. The problem of the crank seems to have been the combination of crank and BB and not the frame. I have it but also no longer solved. I had bought another BB but then decided to replace everything.
2. I've now driven just under 1,000km with it and it drives well. Does it drive like an Endurace? Is it stiff? I can not and will not say anything because I have too little experience with other road bikes and have no direct comparison.
3. well after my experience definitely no more :)

Sorry I could not help much more.
Many thanks, timeout93!

Your feedback and reports help a lot already, and I am very grateful for your reply. I have ordered the frame in size S (unpainted matte) and will report about my experience with the delivery, build and riding here. I plan to use a 8100 Di2 group (160 mm discs) and the D45 Winspace Hyper wheelset with 28 mm tires as a road setup, and may be some gravel wheel with 32 mm tires set later. I appreciate the suggestion to save some weight with the Aliexpress seatpost as well as the Wren stem. Further savings will be realised via Ridenow tubes (160 g on the bike and another 160 g in the saddle bag). In summary, I hope to end up with less than 7.3 kg with the Favero Assiomas installed.

timeout93
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2022 1:12 pm

by timeout93

Here is the current build.

to be honest, i love the look with these tires.

Unfortunately there is still one (big) problem. The ZTTO cassette seems to have been manufactured not quite according to the dimensions of SRAM. It presses on the end cap and thus the wheel can no longer turn. Currently I have to go with a 1.85 spacer, thereby I have only 11 gears and the shifting performance could be better. Unfortunately, I have not yet found a solution for this, except to buy a new cassette.

See you soon.
Attachments
IMG_4057.jpeg

vTuga
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:37 am

by vTuga

timeout93 wrote:
Wed Aug 31, 2022 3:38 pm
Here is the current build.

to be honest, i love the look with these tires.

Unfortunately there is still one (big) problem. The ZTTO cassette seems to have been manufactured not quite according to the dimensions of SRAM. It presses on the end cap and thus the wheel can no longer turn. Currently I have to go with a 1.85 spacer, thereby I have only 11 gears and the shifting performance could be better. Unfortunately, I have not yet found a solution for this, except to buy a new cassette.

See you soon.
I don't think ZTTOs cassetes are SRAM AXS compatible. New AXS cassetes, chains and cranksets have have a few differences and are incompatible with most third party solutions unless they say they are AXS compatible.

timeout93
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2022 1:12 pm

by timeout93

Well that's not exactly my problem. The cassette is for an XDR freehub and should therefore work.
I also use a XT chain and a Garbaruk chainring, that all works with AXS.

worstje
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:28 pm

by worstje

Frame (size S, matte black) used to build a Ultegra 8100 Di2 bike.

Thoughts and findings:

My Lightcarbon frame (LCR007-V) is of better build quality:
1. I had to resize the lower brake hose hole in the fork to fit the hose
2. Minor surface irregularities at head tube top and saddle tube top
3. Sharp edges and carbon residues left inside the frame
4. Cable holes show many irregularities
5. Missing hole for the front Di2 derailleur (one has to use the shifting cable hole), some workaround required to avoid damage from rear tire
6. Plastic covers for cable guides are cheap plastic that will probably rattle, fixing with tape required
7. One of the front brake housing threads required more force to fit the bolt than the other. I was really worried about breaking it while installing the bolt (I definitely not tilted it while inserting)
8. Anti-rattling measures required for brake hose in frame
9. Did not get the seat post clamp cover, Chris promised to send it to me (update follows)
10. One has to be really careful with the bottle cage threads, very soft material

Nevertheless:
1. Overall frame integrity seems to be good (feels stiff in hands, no weak spots)
2. Headset races fit well, even though bearing shells are irregularly cut
3. Bottom bracket (SM-BB92-41B) installed without any issues, Ultegra crank set fitted nicely, even though I needed a hammer for the final 10 mm, but I guess this is rather due to the BB than the shell quality
4. Overall outer frame finish is OK, minor irregularities at bottle cage threads, most need a reading glass to be seen

Would I buy it again?
1. A used Canyon Endurace CF SLX frame will probably cost the four- to five-fold of the VB-R-066 frame (considering the 590 USD paid for the VB frame with XDB shipping including insurance), however, the better build quality and probably about >180 g lower weight (820 g in size M according website) may justify the extra costs
2. See below for updates

Weights:
1. Frame (size S) with thru axle thread and RD hanger (without thru axle and bottle cage bolts): 976 g
2. Fork without thru axle: 378 g (cut to 3 cm spacer height: 355 g)
3. Seat post (400 mm): 213 g
4. Seat post clamp: 20 g
5. Front thru axle (alloy): 31 g
6. Rear thru axle (alloy): 42 g
7. Headset bearings with races: 70 g
8. Headset: 55 g
9. Chain suck plate: 3 g
10. Bottle cage bolts: 2 g each

Low-cost weight savings (VB parts only):
1. Seat post: 70 g (e.g. Aliexpress 350 mm seat post as mentioned previously - 143 g)
2. Headset: 39 g (e.g. Schmolke Expander SL - 16 g)
3. Lightweight bottle cage bolts: 4 g (VB ones weigh 8 g)
4. Do not use chain suck plate: 3 g (proper chain stay protector instead which will be installed anyway, never had issues with chain suck before)

Weight is 7.290 kg with pedals (Favero Assioma, 301 g) and bottle cages (2x 18 g) and Topeak pump mount (10 g) installed, calculations give about 7.248 kg, so 0.58% deviation here.

First ride impressions (wheelset Winspace Hyper D45 with 28 mm Conti GP5000):
(1) very stiff in BB area, excellent power transfer from pedals to road, first time I was easily able to chase cars in the city starting at the lights up to >50 km/h
(2) impressive aerodynamics despite disc brakes, made a couple of new PRs on my short ride which was mainly intended to run in the disc brakes and test the frame and setup
(3) very stable cornering behaviour (new PR on famous descent in Berlin), I felt safe in any situation on the bike
(4) excellent dampening behaviour: a longer cobble stone section did only tingle my feet, same for a gravel section which I was able to ride at >35 km/h without any issues
(5) front disc brake slightly rubbing when out of saddle during climbs (68 kg rider), but I guess that both discs are not yet fully run in (I will update on this after 300 km outdoor rides)
(6) no other noises or rattling experienced, however, I silenced the brake cable inside the frame during the build by guiding it through some lightweight foam packaging material

Second and third ride impressions (~67 km test ride and follow-up ~233 km Brevet, total distance now >330 km):
(1) Disc rubbing resolved: I have invested some time to center the brake calipers by means of a business card (applied to the problematic piston, only) and finally have eliminated any disc rub. I did not notice any rubbing when out of the saddle on my last ride, but will further carefully listen and report back
(2) Used a Shimano wireway to secure the front derailleur cable at the frame, avoiding any potential tire contact. Sticks very well and looks good (IMHO)
(3) Again, the frame went through cobble stone (about 5 km) and gravel sections (<1 km), bad roads as well as heavy rain. Setup is rock solid and silent.
(4) No play in headset developed (bolted at 2 Nm, no warranty for torque from my side)

Most relevant maximum torques for this frame (reported by Chris without any warranty from my side):
Thru axles: 10 Nm (indeed a relatively low value, had them installed at a torque of 15 Nm before)
Saddle clamp: 8 Nm
Brake calipers: 8 Nm

timeout93
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2022 1:12 pm

by timeout93

I'm just looking for more weight savings, but it´s kinda hard to find...

The wheelset which I'm currently riding I would like to replace. Reason for this is the small inner width and I do not have the possibility to go tubeless. Currently, the wheelset weighs about 1551gr (1485g wheelset with rim tape + two times tube 33g).

Deerobust

Rim: Deerobust TC30-26
Hubs: Deerobust RD147
Spokes: CX-Ray

19mm Internal Width Hook
22mm Internal Width Hookless
30mm Depth丨26mm Width

872USD / 1064g

That would be a rough 400g savings. However, I would be forced to ride tubeless tires, which limits the choice and they are also heavier. With Hook, the inner width is too narrow.

Rim: Deerobust TC35-28

21mm Internal Width Hook
22mm Internal Width Hookless
35mm Depth 丨28mm Width

892USD / 1144g hookless / +50g hook

Rim: Deerobust TC45-28

21mm Internal Width Hook
22mm Internal Width Hookless
45mm Depth丨28mm Width

912USD / 1224g hookless / +50g hook

Warranty: Lifetime

For the rims I´ve always taken the Ultralight version. The hubs I unfortunately do not know and can not find anything about them. I just wonder if at 80kg not 24 instead of 21 holes would be better. Otherwise, there is still the option Yuniper hubs (+20g / 24H) or Bitex BX312 (+50g /24H)

Farsport

Rim: FSD35CM-27T Hookless / Hooked
Hub: RD230
Spokes: CX-Ray or CX-Super (+150USD -40gr).

1024USD / 1120gr hookless / 1170gr hooked

Rim: FSD45CM-27T Hookless / Hooked

1024 USD / 1210gr hookless / 1260gr hooked

Warranty: 2 years

I'm not sure about the weights, because not all information could be found on the site.

Otherwise there are of course Winspace, Drive, EiE... But they are all more expensive.

If hookless, add about 40gr per tire for tubeless sealant and about 7gr per valve. So around 94g instead of the 66g with tubes.

With the two suppliers I currently tend more to Deerobust because of the warranty and the possibility of a glossy finish. In addition, they are cheaper. Unfortunately, however, I know nothing about the hubs.

Carl-Z Germany

Z45i21SL
hooked / 21mm inner width / 1310g / 850EUR

Z35i21SL
Same - 70g

Saddle

Currently SQ LAB 612 just under 200gr. Here I can easily save 100gr, however, I do not want to give up comfort.

Elita One 96g 37 EUR
Cheap carbon saddle 85g 26EUR https://de.aliexpress.com/item/40012022 ... 6184%21rec)
Kocevlo 87g 33EUR https://de.aliexpress.com/item/40012022 ... 6184%21rec

Stem and handlebar

Currently Kalloy Unno and OG-Evkin HB-010. I have unfortunately not weighed the handlebars, but I think the combi weighs around 330gr. Here you could take a lighter combi, but I'm too good with the ergonomics to take a risk here. There would of course be options of on Ali again about 250g (Alpinist or XXX replicas).

Cassette

Currently, the Rival AXS 10-36T is installed with 338g. An upgrade to the Force makes no sense (310g).

Red there is only 10-33T
Rotor 11-36T 225g 300EUR -> Less range
Rotor 11-39T 231g 300EUR -> 100gr savings but possibly problems with 39T

I guess there are no other options?

Derailleur cage

I think here you can certainly save a few more grams. With a Garbaruk cage would also be larger cassettes possible. Unfortunately, I can not find the weight of the Rival derailleur cage including rolls..

Pedals

My old Dura Ace weigh about 300g.

- New Dura Ace weigh about 235g / 220 EUR. Too expensive.
- Speedplay Knock-offs of Ali 150g / 65EUR https://de.aliexpress.com/item/10050033 ... pt=glo2deu
- ??

New Topcap?
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/10050042 ... xt_f=%7B%2
Just for the looks.

Any parts I overlooked?

worstje
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:28 pm

by worstje

Quick update:
Still very happy with the frame after torturing it for more than 800 km in sunshine and rain, even though I scratched the seat tube with a mudguard due to ignoring to install the protection stickers as recommended by the manufacturer.

I am still convinced by its stiffness and geometry, and have not found any major flaws, yet. However, one drawback is that my seatpost started turning when horizontal stress was applied (not slipping!). This is due to the carvings in the original seatpost clamp which are horizonally aligned. Applying a torque of 8 Nm (maximum torque given by Velobuild) did not resolve the issue. Installing a plastic sheet at the clamp and seatpost/frame was not successful (just not resolving the turning), so that I finally used carbon installation paste to fix it (what I consider as last resort, since it is neither good for the seatpost nor the inner seattube). Even though this is resolved now, I find it quite annoying, and this again underlines the low level of QC and preferred choice of cheap cr@p components (seatpost clamp here) by Chinese carbon frame manufacturers (had seatpost slipping issues with my LightCarbon frame before, too).

Update 19 October:
>240 km Brevet ride done last weekend, the only fails were two flats in both tires (broken beer bottle in the city and who knows what else caused the other tube to fail). Frame made its job very well, even though it was wet and dirty, with some Category 2 gravel and cobblestone roads (I am on 28 mm tires). No creaking, no other noises, seat post did neither slip nor turn. Stiff and responsive in any situation. Cleaning the bike with a shower in the bath tube after the ride did also not raise any noise issues.

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