Practical Sub-5 On a Budget (4454g) - Officially Sub-10!

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Kumppa
Posts: 462
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:05 am

by Kumppa

Interesting project! This makes me want to modify my 10sp Red parts even though I don't have any spare for them.

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ProfessorChaos
in the industry
Posts: 772
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:10 am

by ProfessorChaos

Your attention to detail on this build is impressive, and inspiring. I've been away from this board for several years, but recently came back as I am starting my first project bike in years, and I like looking for inspiration. It's projects like this that I absolutely adore. I felt compelled to share that with you.

by Weenie


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sylvain70
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:43 am

by sylvain70

Wow that's a crazy bike ! with a lot of work, it is a jewelry :)

sylvain70
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:43 am

by sylvain70

Do you have pictures of the complete bike updated please ?

jpeterson1012
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:06 pm
Location: Chicago

by jpeterson1012

Kumppa wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:10 pm
Interesting project! This makes me want to modify my 10sp Red parts even though I don't have any spare for them.
ProfessorChaos wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:50 pm
Your attention to detail on this build is impressive, and inspiring. I've been away from this board for several years, but recently came back as I am starting my first project bike in years, and I like looking for inspiration. It's projects like this that I absolutely adore. I felt compelled to share that with you.
Thanks a lot! Makes me happy to see that my efforts are being appreciated by so many for sure
sylvain70 wrote:
Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:04 am
Do you have pictures of the complete bike updated please ?
Soon! Bike's currently lying in pieces after a bunch of modifications. Installed the THM BB and crankset yesterday, cut the elita one seatpost at a 45deg, and did some more tuning on the RD to get it down to 107.5 (yet still quite durable). Waiting on some new headset parts before I chop the steerer 12mm shorter, as well as some carbon shifter clamps (but those are probably still more than a month out).

Also, have to wait till there's not a foot of snow outside to go take some new hero shots.

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Kayrehn
Posts: 1692
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:06 pm

by Kayrehn

I am one of your ardent followers and I bet many on this forum follow as eagerly since there aren't many true ww builds in progress nowadays, so please update on the build periodically!

I get my shifter clamps from Darimo at €42 - they are less than a quarter of the original clamps' weight so definitely worth the upgrade! Image

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jpeterson1012
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:06 pm
Location: Chicago

by jpeterson1012

Kayrehn wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:27 am
I am one of your ardent followers and I bet many on this forum follow as eagerly since there aren't many true ww builds in progress nowadays, so please update on the build periodically!

I get my shifter clamps from Darimo at €42 - they are less than a quarter of the original clamps' weight so definitely worth the upgrade!
Thanks! I emailed them after seeing your post in your build! Haven't received a reply yet, but I was shocked to say the least - 3.8g, damn!

jpeterson1012
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:06 pm
Location: Chicago

by jpeterson1012

Not the update yall are waiting for (new pics) but an update nonetheless.

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1. Used some of these nylon screws to replace the bottom bracket cable guide plate screw, as well as the screws that hold the rear derailleur hanger to the frame. Those bolts don't carry any load as soon as the QR is clamped shut, but I will have to be more careful when removing the rear wheel in the future as that can put some bending loads on the hanger if done carelessly. 2.7g saved for almost nothing, yay

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2. Tuned the crown race and the upper compression ring with some good ol' drillium action. Ground down the crown race outer diameter a bit to get rid of the raised lip (it's a design feature to help pull the race off the fork, but since this is a split race it does nothing). The race and fork are not under any extra stress so it's all good. The upper compression ring was thinned down by hand, keeping overall thickness uniformity within +/-0.02mm around the ring (measure-sand-measure). It was then drilliumed out in the same fashion as the crown race to save 0.6g. The only thing I'll have to watch for is galvanic corrosion on the lower race if road salts are thrown up into it. I might pad on a couple of thin layers of shellac to shield it while adding next to no weight. Overall the race tuning saved 3g

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3. Did some tuning on the outer plate of the red22 RD. Stiffness is not important in the cage plates themselves since only the top pulley guides the chain from cog to cog. But I am happy to say that the stiffness remains basically the same. The mounting screw is disappointingly heavy, and I have plans to make one out of AZ31B when I can arrange a way to safely machine that stuff. A near-identical AZ31B version would weigh only 2.9g, saving 2.5g on a 5.4g part while being pretty much just as strong - insane

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4. This is a long shot, but I kinda want to make this out of AZ31B (A common magnesium alloy) as well. It's a glue-in fork "expander" (even though it doesn't really expand, it just sits there and supports the steerer when the stem clamps down). My current J&L expander weighs 6.2g and doesn't support across the entire length that the stem clamps (it can either support 1 of 2 bolts, or sit between them and do a little for both). It also doesn't hold very firm unless I crank down on that center bolt which isn't nice. Extralite's newest version claims to weigh 4.7g, and has the same problems as my J&L one.

This AZ31B one is projected to weigh only 2.5g, so a healthy saving. It's also designed to span the full 25mm distance between the two stem clamp bolts, supporting the clamping load properly to help prevent the notorious issues with extralite stems (though I haven't experienced it myself yet). It's also designed to be glued instead of expanded, since the steerer is already as short as it can get so its length will effectively never change again. Finally, gluing it in also means that it won't ever slip when I try to compress the stack (the headset on this bike needs quite a lot of preload to eliminate play).

The only thing really stopping me from machining the parts is due to how dangerous magnesium alloys can be to machine. Small chips and strings have the tendency to catch fire if a spark hits them, and once lit, is very hard to put out - as in pouring water on it makes it explode, CO2 fails because it breaks the oxygen atoms off from CO2 and uses it as fuel, normal ABC fire extinguishers don't work, etc. The only way to effectively put it out is to smother it with dry sand or kitty litter. It also burns super hot - up to 2200c (twice as hot as jet fuel), hot enough to melt steel and set everything on fire, and the list goes on. Great non-flammable final parts, nasty machining hazards! Those who work with it daily don't mention fires using "if" but rather "when." If I do get around to making these parts, it will be on a lathe that's mounted on a pallet in the garage. When I machine magnesium I'll stick a pallet cart under it and drag the lathe out onto the driveway and pray it doesn't rain :lol:

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5. This is an excellent recent find. The Token Crown Cap. I'm not a big fan of the graphics on the cover, but at least the etching is stealthy instead of white. The design is quite smart and well thought out (credit to Kiff Designs) The top cap integrates both the bolt, as well as the top-most spacer into a single ultra-light piece. The bolt is half-hollow, as in bored halfway so that water does not enter through the torx drive cavity. The threads are kept short and the unthreaded shank is reduced for further weight savings. Kiff originally left 4mm of clearance between the bottom lip and the "ceiling" to accommodate a steerer that was 3mm taller than the stem. However I like to cut mine at around 1.5mm taller, so I machined it down to 2.75mm so shave even more weight off. The original Aliexpress top cap + bolt + spacer combo weighed 6.25g, this new 3-in-1 top cap weighs only 3.82g so a healthy 2.43g savings there. The best part is, the top cap is pretty cheap at only 14 bucks shipping+tax incl.

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6. I've also finally gotten around to chopping the elita one seatpost at a 45deg. I also cut down one of the titanium yoke bolts that had excess. 4g total savings.

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7. I originally wanted to just tune down the upper headset bearing cover a little. It came off the lathe 1.3g lighter, but then I figured I might as well buy a supersix evo cover instead since it has the same outer diameter (KP253). Have yet to test how this one fits (how big or small the gap between it and the frame will be). The one downside is it doesn't have an o-ring between the cap and the steerer. However I that won't be much of an issue since this isn't a wet-day bike. I'll most likely apply a bit of that carbogrip stuff on that surface and hope it seals it somewhat, not too concerned. It saves 6.4g over the untuned original, so if it works it'll be sweet.

Those are most of the changes that I can recall so far, so yes, I have been actively working on it!
Last edited by jpeterson1012 on Sat Feb 05, 2022 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jpeterson1012
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:06 pm
Location: Chicago

by jpeterson1012

I realized I never really did a full post on my Red22 Tuning

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1. I tried to extract the pins. I aborted halfway.

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2. Looks a helluva lot better and shinier IRL. drilled some holes where it wouldn't impact strength

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3. Thinned down the middle section until only the extremities were thick for better strength-to-weight ratio

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4. Left a little bit of the plate that said "red" remaining. It's a common mistake to remove it, I removed it last time and ended up trashing the derailleur because I didn't trust it anymore. The plate is what keeps the two haves of the parallelogram joined (as the pin at the P-knuckle is friction-fit with the plastic piece instead of the armatures. Removing the plate results in armatures that flex excessively.

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5. I removed the plastic barrel adjuster hand-piece, then replaced the spring with purple (low strength) loctite. It's pretty tight, but not impossible to turn by hand, so it turn from vibrations. I haven't had many issues with cable stretch using the link housing since the ferrules don't "settle" themselves over time, so I won't be touching the barrel adjuster much.

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6. I'm no longer using the retaining rotor clips on the mounting bolt to save 0.2g. Will have to be very careful not to lose that wave washer when servicing it in the future. The pulleys are of the homemade variety, only 8.8g a pair, made of 7075-T6 and anodized to match the rest of the baby pink. I actually made them purely because I couldn't find baby pink pulleys that were not ceramicspeed. Finally, The last thing I'm still waiting for is an aluminum torx M6 bolt to replace the stock cable pinch bolt which is titanium. should save like ~0.5g once I drill it hollow like the titanium one. The final weight with that bolt installed is projected to be around 107.5g

:beerchug:

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Kayrehn
Posts: 1692
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:06 pm

by Kayrehn

Very cool guide on tuning!

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poulhansen
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:49 pm
Location: Danmark

by poulhansen

Very interesting. A REAL WW project on WW ;-)

A very contagious virus. :-)

My start goal was less than 6.8 kg, the bike being a "Legalize my Cannondale" model but then it came below a bit, so a new goal was set and achieved: Below 6.0 kg.

And now I might just find a lighter frame and go down to...... ???kg. ;-)
Cannondale six13, 2004, 5.59kg

jpeterson1012
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:06 pm
Location: Chicago

by jpeterson1012

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Officially sub-10 lbs!
The carbon chainring is quite a bit louder than the old homemade one. Still waiting on a set of darimo shifter clamps, but those look to be at least a month and a half out. Switching over to clipless will also save 20g, once that happens. Better pictures to come once the snow clears

And now we interrupt this broadcasting with a shameless plug of a bike-themed pizza cutter I'm making for class:

Finally, a bike-themed pizza cutter that matches the caliber of your bike! Made from brand-new bike parts, only 15 being made. Click here to learn more and reserve yours now!
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jpeterson1012
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:06 pm
Location: Chicago

by jpeterson1012

We might have a real good one coming in soon. a friend of mine just registered, his bike's 3.2kg (!)

Alfonso
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:49 pm

by Alfonso

Hello.
Good news for the weight weenies family to have a 3.2kg bike to go back to the days of light weight weenies bikes.
I hope to see information and photos of the 3.2 kg bike soon.
All the best.

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jokersan
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:18 am

by jokersan

jpeterson1012 wrote:
Tue Feb 15, 2022 5:28 am
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Officially sub-10 lbs!
The carbon chainring is quite a bit louder than the old homemade one. Still waiting on a set of darimo shifter clamps, but those look to be at least a month and a half out. Switching over to clipless will also save 20g, once that happens. Better pictures to come once the snow clears

And now we interrupt this broadcasting with a shameless plug of a bike-themed pizza cutter I'm making for class:

Finally, a bike-themed pizza cutter that matches the caliber of your bike! Made from brand-new bike parts, only 15 being made. Click here to learn more and reserve yours now!
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Thats all about, rim brake bike for road and disc to cut pizza!
--------------------------------------------------------
Pinarello Dogma F12 Disc
Bianchi Oltre XR4
Look 695 SR
Battaglin Power Plus Disc
Bianchi Infinito CV
Canyon Ultimate CF SL Disc
Battaglin C12
Koga Miyata Super Winner 1986

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



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