Light, longer distance race bike :)

Discuss light weight issues concerning mountain bikes & parts.

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DanW
Posts: 1243
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 5:39 pm
Location: Here, there and everywhere

by DanW

Hi all,

The most over asked question on bike forums.... but with some specific requirements towards longer races. I want to say "what marathon bike" but I want it to be blurring "Trail Bike" abilites not Euro style marathon races. I also want to avoid the use of "Downcountry"... DOH! :D

My ideal bike would be:

100mm front and rear travel. Up to 120mm if mega efficient
Efficient and nice to climb for someone used to XC race bikes/ rigid singlespeed
66 degree HTA or slacker
Reach/ Stack around 470mm/ 600mm (long and low)
Ideally longer rather than short chainstays and long wheelbase
Certainly one large bottle in the triangle, ideally room for a second bottle inside the frame
Mud friendly (large tyre clearance, sensible cable routing, long lasting and easily available replacement hardware, ideally threaded BB)
Frame under £3000 (sounds like lot but this restricts options significantly!) or decent value full build not much more
Light weight would also be a big bonus

The usual suspects always come up like:
Transistion Spur (too "trail"?)
Specialized Epic Evo (front runner at the moment)
Trek Top Fuel (too heavy and expensive)
Scott Spark (too complicated and I don't like the amount of levers and faff)
BMC Fourstroke (yes please, but way too expensive)

Aside from the Spec Epic Evo to look at I had come up with:

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Vitus Rapide. Good on the value, maybe not the best rear end for pedalling, stiffness and mud clearance. Geo also not quite what I'd ideally go for.

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ARC8 Evolve FS or even Essential at a push. Headset cable routing and flat mount spoil otherwise promising options.

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I am struggling for inspriation for a superlight XC race bike with more "Trail" geometry. I have a custom steel singlespeed so I've tried a lot of different geometry options to know what I feel is non-negotiable for fit and ride feel (not just online review hype :) )

There must be some gems out there so over to you knowledgeable folk :)

freepk
Posts: 256
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:31 pm

by freepk

Hey, DanW )

My bet on Arc8 Evolve FS with Fox Factory.

by Weenie


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DanW
Posts: 1243
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 5:39 pm
Location: Here, there and everywhere

by DanW

Is there anything else out there which is a really close comparison to the ARC8 Evolve FS for weight and geometry? The Epic Evo is a little different but the closest other option I can see...

snaxez
Posts: 311
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:14 pm
Location: Estonia

by snaxez

New Orbea Oiz has 67° HTA, but internal headset cable routing. Epic Evo would be good, but does not fit your budget.
And regular Scott Spark has 65.8°HTA (- 0.6° more if you flip the headset cups, that makes 65.2°), but again internal routing.
Spark RC has 67.2° or 66.6° with heatset cups fliped.

Hexsense
Posts: 3270
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

Considering full suspension race bike. I'd pay equal attention to how the suspension perform as the static geometry. Afterall, geometry change when the bike use or not use its rear travel versus front travel.

Arc8 Evolve FS has more anti-squat value. Epic Evo has just borderline "sufficient" amount of anti squat. Depend on your seat height, but for most people the slightly more anti-squat on Evolve FS is preferrable. On a certain gears, Orbea Oiz has excessive amount of anti-squat. But it's good on the climbing gears. Similar to BMC Fourstroke. Another option that ride softer (but less efficient) when lockout is not used and is cheaper than all these options is Fezzari Signal Peak. Frameset full price is $2499!. Ibis Exie (two water bottles in the frame) is too XC and expensive. You may find some deal on Ibis Ripley V4 (one water bottles in the frame) though. It's a racey trail bike with efficient DW link suspension design.

Arc8 Evolve FS
https://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2022 ... -2023.html

Epic Evo
https://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2021 ... -2021.html

Orbea Oiz
https://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2022 ... -2023.html
BMC Fourstroke
https://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2022 ... -2023.html

Ibis Ripley (trail bike, DW link)
https://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2019 ... -2020.html

DanW
Posts: 1243
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 5:39 pm
Location: Here, there and everywhere

by DanW

Epic Evo is in budget as the cheapest full build on discount and selling off the parts. There's no way I'd live with a Spark for its lack of practicalities, however good a bike it may be

Excellent input thank you @Hexsense

That was worry for the Epic Evo and good to have some comparison of where it sits with other options for what should translate to climbing feel. A rear remote lockout might help but thats more money and I like a "set and forget" suspension platform

Fezzari Signal Peak is a good shout. Handling wise it should be close and fit-wise it should be close to spot on in a L

No idea how I missed the new Oiz too! Orbea were always mega over priced... now they just look over priced so with a bit of discount I may be able to sneak in the cheapest model for the frame. Great idea, thanks!

snaxez
Posts: 311
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:14 pm
Location: Estonia

by snaxez

DanW wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 3:54 pm
Epic Evo is in budget as the cheapest full build on discount and selling off the parts. There's no way I'd live with a Spark for its lack of practicalities, however good a bike it may be

Excellent input thank you @Hexsense

That was worry for the Epic Evo and good to have some comparison of where it sits with other options for what should translate to climbing feel. A rear remote lockout might help but thats more money and I like a "set and forget" suspension platform

Fezzari Signal Peak is a good shout. Handling wise it should be close and fit-wise it should be close to spot on in a L

No idea how I missed the new Oiz too! Orbea were always mega over priced... now they just look over priced so with a bit of discount I may be able to sneak in the cheapest model for the frame. Great idea, thanks!
Depends on the dealer I guess, I ordered my new Oiz back in september, and got it about a month ago. M-Pro with -20% preorder discount was under 5100€
Similar spec on Spark or Epic would have been alot more.

DanW
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Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 5:39 pm
Location: Here, there and everywhere

by DanW

I have all parts- I am looking to get a frame for the best value possible. Unfortunately for a lot of companies that means buying completes and selling parts. There's no good value way to buy a bike nowadays :)

smartyiak
Posts: 343
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:20 pm

by smartyiak

I don't have the $$$ for one, but people who do seem to LOVE them:
https://alliedcycleworks.com/collection ... YxEALw_wcB

(and they sure are pretty)

Edit: Sorry...missed the price restraint. DELETE if possible.

freepk
Posts: 256
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:31 pm

by freepk

@DanW Fourstroke and Evolve has modern design, but Fourstroke much heavier.
Vitus is just rebranded Carbonda )

snaxez
Posts: 311
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:14 pm
Location: Estonia

by snaxez

smartyiak wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 5:32 pm
I don't have the $$$ for one, but people who do seem to LOVE them:
https://alliedcycleworks.com/collection ... YxEALw_wcB

(and they sure are pretty)

Edit: Sorry...missed the price restraint. DELETE if possible.
They look nice, but seems like US and Canada only. Don`t see anyone selling them in EU.

DanW
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Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 5:39 pm
Location: Here, there and everywhere

by DanW

Vitus is just rebranded Carbonda
Yep, well aware of this frame under a few brands plus China direct buying. I think there are too many negatives for me to go for one. I'll keep hunting for the unicorn ;) :)

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prebsy
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Location: there or thereabouts

by prebsy

Speaking as a guy with 3 xc bikes in his living room at the moment: 2022 Spark RC, 2023 Epic Evo, 2021 Intense Sniper XC


The spark is indeed a lot of faff (twinloc, headset cable routing etc etc) but really capable. The only thing hampering it's capability is max dropper length. It climbs like crap open you need to work that twinloc all the time.
real weight size large- 2400g for frame, shock, fittings, twinloc remote

The Epic evo is really good. It's simple, it climbs decent wide open. It is remote compatible but also a custom tune shock so... some compromise.
real weight size large - 2050g for frame, shock, fittings

Sniper XC (with 120 SID ultimate) very easy to live with, very capable (feels similar to the epic evo), no remote routing and switch is a bit hard to reach but it's the best open climber on the list and has a useful trail setting. Some will rag on the "slack" STa but i actually like it more for xc riding (not as good very steep stuff)
real weight size large - 2220g for frame,shock, fittings

de lars cuevas
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:28 pm
Location: the Netherlands

by de lars cuevas

Cannondale Scalpel SE?
Canyon Lux Trail?
Cube AMS one11?

DanW
Posts: 1243
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 5:39 pm
Location: Here, there and everywhere

by DanW

Like a lot of bikes the Scalpel SE comes close but has a couple of weird let downs. I would have to be on an XL for the fit I want, which comes with a ginormous 52cm seat tube! That shouldn’t be the case at 175cm tall. I’m not massively keen on a long dropper but that is such a fail. My custom steel frame has me completely sold on pushing the long, low, slack trend for all types of bike, not just big, heavy long travel bikes. You may argue I am just being difficult with the geometry and my reach/ stack requirements for my height are abnormal, but a XL Scalpel SE fit is more or less equal to a Medium Vitus Rapide/ NS Synonym/ Open mould released several years ago.

The Canyon and the Lux would be backward steps compared to my hardtail for fit and handling.

The Intense Sniper T looks like good value, but comparing my saddle position on a sagged HT to the slack STA on a sagged Sniper/ Sniper T it is going to be hard to get the saddle far enough forwards. The cable routing under the BB and towards the rotor would annoy me, as I’m sure gritty mud getting trapped in between the multitude of links would. Another close one, but not quite enough for me.

The list I have considered and discounted...

ARC8 Evolve FS
BMC Fourstroke/ LT
Cannondale Scalpel SE
Canyon Lux/ Trail
Carbon Wasp Truffle
Evil Following
Fezzari Signal Peak
Ibis Exie
Intense Sniper T
Lapierre XRM
Mondraker F-Podium DC
Nicolai Saturn 11
Nukeproof Reactor Carbon 290 ST
Orange Stage Evo factory
Orbea Oiz
Pivot Mach 4
Revel Ranger
Rocky Mountain Element
Salsa Spearfish
Santa Cruz Blur
Santa Cruz Tallboy
Scott Spark
Specialized Epic Evo
Specialized Stumpjumper
Transistion Spur
Trek Top Fuel
Vitus Rapide
Yeti SB115
YT Izzo

by Weenie


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Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

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