Downcountry/ XC shock and fork comparison

Discuss light weight issues concerning mountain bikes & parts.

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Hexsense
Posts: 3270
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

Hi,
I happen to be able to test XC/ Downcountry fork and shock from Rockshock, Fox and Manitou for my downcountry bike. So I think this could be useful for other if I just write my impression down as well.

Rear Shock:
Trunnion 165x45
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Rockshox Sidluxe
weight: 230g
pressure: 165psi

Fox Float DPS Evol
weight: 251g
pressure: 140psi

Manitou Mara Inline
weight: 325g
pressure: 92psi

Opinion:
Rockshox Sidluxe was just fine but not impressed. It feel like it is very active, move a lot, but not very controlled. There is no way to adjust the compression damping, and its compression damping is very light even for my weight (62kg). I think it's a shock that give up part of their job to save weight. Light compression, rely on spring on the way down, then damp all the excessive movement on the rebound path up. Being so light on compression damping make its job easier and can be done by a light-weight damper. It is not as controlled as Mara but the lap time is similar while weight much less -- this would be XC racing shock of choice due to its weight.

Fox DPS Evol It feel poppy, playful but harsher on big bump than the rest. I noticed that I jump higher on this shock vs 2 other shocks. The downside is, big hit feels like a harsh kick no matter how light I set the compression setting (with appropriate rebound). While many people claim to have problem with this shock if they are heavy and require high shock pressure. At my 62kg and 140psi in the shock, it function just fine.

Manitou Mara Inline weight way more than the rest. It also feel distinctly different from the rest as well. It's like the damper is more effective at slowing the movement down. It feel like a bigger shock than the others. This thing bob less from pedal and I can dial in more low speed compression damping than other shock and big hit still doesn't feel harsh. That's rather nice and almost or probably worth its extra weight for trail riding.
Despite its comfort ride and extra weight, my lap time is faster than with Fox, strangely...
My Mara Inline is a generic tune, but the setting range is rather huge. So, it can be set up for my bike and most bike in the market just fine. Didn't hit either end of the adjustment range.
Last edited by Hexsense on Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:03 pm, edited 4 times in total.

by Weenie


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Hexsense
Posts: 3270
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

Forks:
Rockshox Sid Ultimate 120mm : about 1540g
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When this fork is first released, there's a widespread problem with loose bushing. I think Rockshox tried to fix it and mine is tight. Actually, a bit too tight that it doesn't move very freely.
This 35mm stanchion fork is pretty stiff. But the damper in this fork is sub 100g! It weight less than half the damper in equivalent Fox and Manitou Fork. This fork is highly progressive. Even with no volume spacer, it's quite hard to use the full travel. Also, there is no compression fine tuning and the default setting is rather firm and supportive. Good for racing, a little stiff for relax trail ride. The damping is good enough for XC racing. IMO, if you get a good one without issue, it's better than Fox 34SC.

Fox 34 StepCast Factory 120mm: about 1490g
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First picture is the original color. Second one is after I apply different color decal to match my bike.
Good thing about it are: bushings are appropriately sized. The small bump sensitivity is good. Bypass channel at the back of the fork keep the seal lubricated well and this fork will likely last longer before requiring any maintenance.

However, I think this fork is created in panic by Fox to one up Rockshox Sid Ultimate on weight. Or maybe they focus a lot more on regular 34 with Grip2 damper that they didn't make 34SC with Fit4 very well.
First, the CSU unit are machined out so much that it doesn't test well in stiffness. Second, they didn't improve Fit4 and the same old high speed compression harsh spike is still there. Fit4 damper have more adjustment than Rockshox Raceday damper. However, if you are race-light and setup some compression for mid stroke support or pedaling platform, it'll be harsh. If you set it up for cush ride, then it feel wallowy on hard corner and braking. For the best of my ability, I cannot get both stability and plush ride together. Maybe custom tune can help.
Maybe if you are heavy, you might not have problem with stock damper tune but you then experience casing flex. Fork that flex and bind also doesn't travel smoothly.

Manitou R7 Pro 120mm: about 1650g
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Sound like a repeated story from rear shock. This thing weight more than Fox and Rockshox equivalent. Yet, it perform better. Does it worth the weight? Maybe.
First thing to praise is the damper: it doesn't have HSC spike and I can dial in more LSC on this fork and it's still doesn't spike like Fox Fit4 on big hits. The motion is controlled, smooth and provide traction like trail fork rather than XC fork.
Second: Stiffness. This thing has 32mm stanchion. Smaller than Fox and Rockshox. Yet it feel (and tested) stiffer than Fox and similar to Rockshox.
Third: Adjustability is excellent.
3.1) Wide range of setting on the damper knobs. If that's not good enough, there is a guide to tune the shim stack inside the fork yourself. No need to send to suspension tuner.
3.2) Amount of travel can be adjusted internally from 80mm all the way to 120mm travel in 10mm increment. While RS and Fox need airspring change, this fork simply require you to take the fork apart and remove/add spacers to change travel.

Now, what not to like:
1) weight. Manitou refuse to sacrifice damper mechanism or structural stiffness to save weight. So, it weight almost like a trail fork. Just with shorter travel.
2) amount of travel. It is marked as 120mm travel. But it doesn't really offer that. More like 115mm travel. However, Axle to crown length of this fork is also lower than Fox and Rockshox forks.
3) Funky setup.
First, the color code for compression and rebound are reversed from Fox and RS. Red is compression, blue is rebound :twisted:
Second, positive and negative air chamber are equalized when pump head is attached. When pump is attached, positive and negative chamber is connected and you can move fork through its travel freely with only damper resistance. Air spring is not functioning during this time.
You have to be extra careful when airing up this fork to only detach the pump while the fork is fully extended. Otherwise, the ratio between positive and negative air can be messed up.
Third, air volume adjustment is also different. Instead of using volume spacer. It adjust the air volume by setting air seal at a different height. It seems more complex than using volume spacer like other manufacturers.
Fourth and lastly, even front through axle is strange. Hexlock2 TA is weird.
Last edited by Hexsense on Fri May 27, 2022 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bumbabambuee
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:38 am

by Bumbabambuee

Great comparison! Do you have experience in running Pike Ultimate? How would you compare the R7 to a Pike?

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Klaster_1
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Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:25 am
Location: Paphos, Cyprus

by Klaster_1

Thanks for the feedback! I'm trying to keep my XC bike after a move, if I succeed, the new R7 would be very much on the radar. My previous Manitous (R7 Pro, Marvel Pro) never were as light as competitors, so extra weight doesn't bother me, but improved performance sounds great. To be honest, I never found Marvel to perform as well as I'd expect, even with a trail tune - maybe I didn't set it up right or my expectations were unrealistic.

Hexsense
Posts: 3270
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

Bumbabambuee wrote:
Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:47 am
Great comparison! Do you have experience in running Pike Ultimate? How would you compare the R7 to a Pike?
I personally don't.
However, there are other people that do:
https://www.mtbr.com/threads/2020-manit ... t-15359250

My guess would be:
In stock form, it'd be comparable.
Pike has a lot of third party customize/upgrade options (Luftkappe, Secus, Smashpot etc.) that potentially make it ride better than R7 if you pay for some of these upgrades.
Manitou have shim stack tuning guide to tune the R7 Pro fork yourself but there's no real upgrade path from Manitou or 3rd party.

Actually, these two forks don't overlap. R7 can be setup for 80-120mm travel. Pike is 130-150mm

by Weenie


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F45
Posts: 1077
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:08 am

by F45

Excellent article, thank you.

Ah, woops. I saw April 29 on the last post and thought it was from today.

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