2022 new xc frames?

Discuss light weight issues concerning mountain bikes & parts.

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Hexsense
Posts: 3363
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

Snabb wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:53 am
The supercaliber frame weight isn´t that light compared to other frames that has 100-120 mm. So with a good lock-out what is the benefit of the supercaliber and Epic WC bikes ? I like the design but not sure if I should change my Epic yet.
Epic WC rear suspension is definitely different from the rest.
It use little to no negative volume. It sag at 0-5% rather than 25-30%.
Normally negative travel before sag point is there to track the undulating terrain to smooth things out, provide better tire grip and stability.
Make it sag at 0% means it's pretty much a hardtail with blow off travel reserve only for large hits. It doesn't provide traction benefit of normal suspension design. But it is brutally efficient like hardtail without the need of lockout.

SuperCaliber is just short travel bike. It doesn't function the same way as Epic WC. So in the case of SuperCaliber. I agree. I'd pick Epic Evo over SuperCaliber.

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Snabb
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:43 am
Location: Sweden

by Snabb

Hexsense wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2024 10:05 pm
Snabb wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:53 am
The supercaliber frame weight isn´t that light compared to other frames that has 100-120 mm. So with a good lock-out what is the benefit of the supercaliber and Epic WC bikes ? I like the design but not sure if I should change my Epic yet.
Epic WC rear suspension is definitely different from the rest.
It use little to no negative volume. It sag at 0-5% rather than 25-30%.
Normally negative travel before sag point is there to track the undulating terrain to smooth things out, provide better tire grip and stability.
Make it sag at 0% means it's pretty much a hardtail with blow off travel reserve only for large hits. It doesn't provide traction benefit of normal suspension design. But it is brutally efficient like hardtail without the need of lockout.

SuperCaliber is just short travel bike. It doesn't function the same way as Epic WC. So in the case of SuperCaliber. I agree. I'd pick Epic Evo over SuperCaliber.

I have a Epic with Brain because I like the 0 % sag feeling for racing. Maybe I should test the Epic WC. The WC riders seems to choose the evo for racing though...
Ride lots!

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zscs
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:05 pm
Location: Hungary

by zscs

zscs wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2024 8:45 pm
Didn't want to create a new topic; here is an interesting new frame from the German Bike Ahead Components: "The Frame". https://r2-bike.com/BIKE-AHEAD-COMPOSIT ... -UD-Carbon

Although BB is Pressfit, but quite a few positive things (to me at least):
- 30.9mm seat tube inner diameter
- brake hose lining is internal but NOT goes over the headset bearing :)
- 2 bottle cages (I know, that's the minimum nowadays)
- PM brake mount (I truly hate flat mount on my Lux CFR...)
- UDH
- I believe geometry is a good compromise between modern and classic (68.5°)
- lovely classic design
- 2k EUR for a 880g frame is... Maybe on the pricy side but at least made in Portugal.

Image
Size L, 4 bolts included + 2 rubber plugs:
Image

UDH hanger is 24g, Intend collar 10g, 12mm axle is 44g. Really nice frame - maybe I'll post the details of my planned, (partly) oldschool build based on this with 1x11 mechanical shifting. ;)

req110
Posts: 903
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:23 am

by req110

zscs wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2024 7:51 pm
zscs wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2024 8:45 pm
Didn't want to create a new topic; here is an interesting new frame from the German Bike Ahead Components: "The Frame". https://r2-bike.com/BIKE-AHEAD-COMPOSIT ... -UD-Carbon

Although BB is Pressfit, but quite a few positive things (to me at least):
- 30.9mm seat tube inner diameter
- brake hose lining is internal but NOT goes over the headset bearing :)
- 2 bottle cages (I know, that's the minimum nowadays)
- PM brake mount (I truly hate flat mount on my Lux CFR...)
- UDH
- I believe geometry is a good compromise between modern and classic (68.5°)
- lovely classic design
- 2k EUR for a 880g frame is... Maybe on the pricy side but at least made in Portugal.

Image
Size L, 4 bolts included + 2 rubber plugs:
Image

UDH hanger is 24g, Intend collar 10g, 12mm axle is 44g. Really nice frame - maybe I'll post the details of my planned, (partly) oldschool build based on this with 1x11 mechanical shifting. ;)
Inform us more, post more pictures of whole build. I consider this frameset too. Is headset bearings included or do you have to purchase aftermarket? Thank you.
S Epic 8 L @ XX T-Type / Berg Ratheberg 30 / Quarq / Fox Transfer SL 100mm / 3p

bikewithnoname
Posts: 1737
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:29 pm
Location: Paris

by bikewithnoname

New Yeti ASR has been released for those of you with a turquoise disposition 115 RR 120FR
"We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities." Oscar Wilde

Bielas
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:12 pm

by Bielas

"PM brake mount (I truly hate flat mount on my Lux CFR...)"

What is to hate the Flat Mount? With a flat-mount caliper it's easy to adjust as in a road bike. If using an adapter for a PM caliper it adjusts just like an original PM brake...

Flat mount makes lots of sense for hardtails or rear triangles without dropout pivots, because the frame can be full carbon without molded threads inside and more simple shape
:mrgreen:

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JayDee81
Posts: 423
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:45 pm
Location: Czech Republic

by JayDee81

Bielas wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2024 4:08 am
"PM brake mount (I truly hate flat mount on my Lux CFR...)"

What is to hate the Flat Mount? With a flat-mount caliper it's easy to adjust as in a road bike. If using an adapter for a PM caliper it adjusts just like an original PM brake...

Flat mount makes lots of sense for hardtails or rear triangles without dropout pivots, because the frame can be full carbon without molded threads inside and more simple shape
You are very limited with brake choice because only lightweight brakes are made with Flat mount. You basically get mtb lever and road caliper... And of course the brake is weaker then.

zscs
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:05 pm
Location: Hungary

by zscs

req110 wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:54 pm
Inform us more, post more pictures of whole build. I consider this frameset too. Is headset bearings included or do you have to purchase aftermarket? Thank you.
Headset is not included.
Fortunately, I had a spare Cane Creek AER 52/40 IS from a few years ago (does this A.E.R. thing still exist / in production?:)) and bought a relatively cheap, but very light PRO SL - IS 42/28.6 upper part for this build. Sure, I'll share some more info in a dedicated topic! ;)

@Bielas: I have a bad experience with my SRAM flat mount caliper. The weak braking performance only a thing (more or less, I can live with it), but I have to check and adjust it in every 2-3 rides, somehow the screws get loose, even with Loctite 243 and tighening them with torque wrench. An another issue is, there's a shortage on flat mount calipers. Last year I wanted to install my MY2018 Trickstuff Piccola brakes and waiting for C22 flat mounts almost for a year and still not is stock / not available. A few months ago I decided to buy a Magura MT8 flat mount caliper instead of the very pricey C22 and I got the Magura one with a wrong bleed screw. Now I'm trying to live with the SRAM one came with my Lux CFR...
Okay, installing a new brake pad is not a flat mount issue, but pushing the pistons back into the calipers in my case is a PITA. I had to buy this tool, otherwise the disc contacts the new brake pads, because there's no enough free space between the disc and brake pads.

req110
Posts: 903
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:23 am

by req110

I don't see a problem with flat mount bikes, you can simply buy fm/pm adapter and run post mount brakes.
S Epic 8 L @ XX T-Type / Berg Ratheberg 30 / Quarq / Fox Transfer SL 100mm / 3p

hannawald
Posts: 1775
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:28 pm
Location: Czech Republic

by hannawald

Hexsense wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2024 10:05 pm
Snabb wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:53 am
The supercaliber frame weight isn´t that light compared to other frames that has 100-120 mm. So with a good lock-out what is the benefit of the supercaliber and Epic WC bikes ? I like the design but not sure if I should change my Epic yet.
Epic WC rear suspension is definitely different from the rest.
It use little to no negative volume. It sag at 0-5% rather than 25-30%.
Normally negative travel before sag point is there to track the undulating terrain to smooth things out, provide better tire grip and stability.
Make it sag at 0% means it's pretty much a hardtail with blow off travel reserve only for large hits. It doesn't provide traction benefit of normal suspension design. But it is brutally efficient like hardtail without the need of lockout.

SuperCaliber is just short travel bike. It doesn't function the same way as Epic WC. So in the case of SuperCaliber. I agree. I'd pick Epic Evo over SuperCaliber.
According to some reviews Supercaliber is totally efficient bike, you almost don´t need the lockout except for start sprinting but it is more comfortable than Epic WC at the same time. See Flowmountainbike review for example. Supercaliber looks to be a better option out of these two. Epic WC is purely for racing and even the racers don´t ride it.

Hexsense
Posts: 3363
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

My post don't mention anything about ride review.
Just how suspension works according to leverage curve, anti squat and positive to negative air volume.

Supercaliber get traction and comfort of full suspension bike with sag. Just with shorter travel.

Epic WC work as hardtail with blow off. Because it sit at top out (no sag) due to its shock having almost no negative air volume.

They are different. Which approach is better depend on who you ask and what you are looking for. Obviously, tester who prefer full suspension feeling will like SuperCal more because SuperCal still function like most other full sus, just with shorter travel. Epic WC is uniquely different.

hannawald
Posts: 1775
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:28 pm
Location: Czech Republic

by hannawald

Hexsense wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2024 9:15 pm
My post don't mention anything about ride review.
Just how suspension works according to leverage curve, anti squat and positive to negative air volume.

Supercaliber get traction and comfort of full suspension bike with sag. Just with shorter travel.

Epic WC work as hardtail with blow off. Because it sit at top out (no sag) due to its shock having almost no negative air volume.

They are different. Which approach is better depend on who you ask and what you are looking for. Obviously, tester who prefer full suspension feeling will like SuperCal more because SuperCal still function like most other full sus, just with shorter travel. Epic WC is uniquely different.
:beerchug:
I just wanted to add that there is some ride quality in Supercaliber, it´s not just a heavier FS bike with lack of rear suspension travel but it is a bike with unique isostrut suspension which gives the bike very efficient feeling. You don´t need to work with 3 position lockouts etc.

aeroskii
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2023 9:13 pm

by aeroskii

Snabb wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2024 10:32 am
Hexsense wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2024 10:05 pm
Snabb wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:53 am
The supercaliber frame weight isn´t that light compared to other frames that has 100-120 mm. So with a good lock-out what is the benefit of the supercaliber and Epic WC bikes ? I like the design but not sure if I should change my Epic yet.
Epic WC rear suspension is definitely different from the rest.
It use little to no negative volume. It sag at 0-5% rather than 25-30%.
Normally negative travel before sag point is there to track the undulating terrain to smooth things out, provide better tire grip and stability.
Make it sag at 0% means it's pretty much a hardtail with blow off travel reserve only for large hits. It doesn't provide traction benefit of normal suspension design. But it is brutally efficient like hardtail without the need of lockout.

SuperCaliber is just short travel bike. It doesn't function the same way as Epic WC. So in the case of SuperCaliber. I agree. I'd pick Epic Evo over SuperCaliber.

I have a Epic with Brain because I like the 0 % sag feeling for racing. Maybe I should test the Epic WC. The WC riders seems to choose the evo for racing though...
The evo is lightest and has a lockout. Also 120mm of travel

Aeo
Posts: 701
Joined: Wed May 25, 2016 2:06 am

by Aeo

zscs wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2024 2:50 pm
waiting for C22 flat mounts almost for a year and still not is stock / not available
They are available here https://www.bikedoc-shop.com/en/p/trick ... ineral-oil
Giant TCR Adv Pro Disc '17 · BH Lynx Race Evo '19 · Seraph GR029 '21 · Canyon Inflite AL '14

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