2019 Santa Cruz Highball C WW Project

Discuss light weight issues concerning mountain bikes & parts.

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stoney
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:26 am

by stoney

speedyspaghetti wrote:
Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:05 pm
stoney wrote:
Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:10 am
Kenda Booster Pro will provide better cornering grip than a similar sized Maxxis Aspen.
That's great to hear - I haven't installed them yet, but I did see that they got good reviews. Have you ridden on a set?
No, but I have several friends that race XC on that tire and they love it. When my current Fast Trak on the front wears out I'll be looking to replace it with a Booster Pro.

by Weenie


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speedyspaghetti
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:31 am

by speedyspaghetti

stoney wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:41 am
speedyspaghetti wrote:
Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:05 pm
stoney wrote:
Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:10 am
Kenda Booster Pro will provide better cornering grip than a similar sized Maxxis Aspen.
That's great to hear - I haven't installed them yet, but I did see that they got good reviews. Have you ridden on a set?
No, but I have several friends that race XC on that tire and they love it. When my current Fast Trak on the front wears out I'll be looking to replace it with a Booster Pro.
I put them on and I have to agree - they are awesome! Nice and grippy, roll super fast, way more confidence inspiring than the Aspens. I might write/film a full review once I get some more miles on them.
Santa Cruz Highball C: Weight Weenie Build - currently at 10.48 kg
Santa Cruz Stigmata CC: Force AXS Build
VeloBuild VB-R-022: Ultegra 6800
'89 Specialized Allez: Full Dura-Ace 7400, Mavic MA40s
'91 Bridgestone MB-6: Full Suntour XCM

speedyspaghetti
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:31 am

by speedyspaghetti

So I did a bit more work over the weekend - got the Booster Pros on there which save a bit over 100g as a pair compared to the Aspens, so that's nice. As I stated above, they roll really well and grip is good. Definite improvement over the old tires.

Also swapped out the PDM520s for XTR 9100s - not a huge weight savings, but the mechanism is definitely way smoother for clipping in and out.

Next up will be saddle - I have an S-Works Power from a bike I sold that I'll swap on there since I like the shape of it.

Still need to figure out rotors to go with the Magura MT8s I bought - unfortunately the wheelset I got is CL only - does it make more sense to get an adapter and then run 6-bolts? Or should I just get the CL version of the rotors and take the potential weight penalty? Do Shimano rotors work with Magura? Magura specs 2.0mm as their thickness and 1.8 as the minimum, whereas Shimano rotors start at 1.8 - would this be an issue?
Santa Cruz Highball C: Weight Weenie Build - currently at 10.48 kg
Santa Cruz Stigmata CC: Force AXS Build
VeloBuild VB-R-022: Ultegra 6800
'89 Specialized Allez: Full Dura-Ace 7400, Mavic MA40s
'91 Bridgestone MB-6: Full Suntour XCM

Hexsense
Posts: 3352
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

Thanks. That's interesting.
It's hard to find Booster Pro in 2.4" right now. So I might try the 2.2" one on my rear wheel.

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robbosmans
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by robbosmans

Imo Magura brakes feel the best with a least a 1.9mm rotor. I use Ashima ARO-08 AiRoToR which are 1.9mm thick. Bike Ahead’s centerlock adaptor is 19g which results in a 104 total weight(160mm) which is pretty descent

speedyspaghetti
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:31 am

by speedyspaghetti

Hexsense wrote:
Mon Apr 25, 2022 6:02 pm
Thanks. That's interesting.
It's hard to find Booster Pro in 2.4" right now. So I might try the 2.2" one on my rear wheel.
Yeah I'm running 2.2 F/R - 2.4 on the front sounds like an interesting combo, I wonder what the weight difference is between the 2.2 and 2.4.
Santa Cruz Highball C: Weight Weenie Build - currently at 10.48 kg
Santa Cruz Stigmata CC: Force AXS Build
VeloBuild VB-R-022: Ultegra 6800
'89 Specialized Allez: Full Dura-Ace 7400, Mavic MA40s
'91 Bridgestone MB-6: Full Suntour XCM

speedyspaghetti
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:31 am

by speedyspaghetti

robbosmans wrote:
Mon Apr 25, 2022 6:07 pm
Imo Magura brakes feel the best with a least a 1.9mm rotor. I use Ashima ARO-08 AiRoToR which are 1.9mm thick. Bike Ahead’s centerlock adaptor is 19g which results in a 104 total weight(160mm) which is pretty descent
That sounds like a good plan - I just ordered the CL Magura rotors for now, but I might try the adaptor + 6-bolt lighter rotors in the future depending on how much I like the brakes. I've never tried Maguras, so I'm excited to get my first taste.
Santa Cruz Highball C: Weight Weenie Build - currently at 10.48 kg
Santa Cruz Stigmata CC: Force AXS Build
VeloBuild VB-R-022: Ultegra 6800
'89 Specialized Allez: Full Dura-Ace 7400, Mavic MA40s
'91 Bridgestone MB-6: Full Suntour XCM

speedyspaghetti
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:31 am

by speedyspaghetti

Quick update everyone -

Was able to install some upgrades on the bike this past week and take it out for a long ride to test them out.

Pedals - went with the XTR-M9100s to replace the M520s. Went from 375g to 310g, so a saving of 65g. Clipping in and out does feel just that slight bit better on the higher end SPD pedals. Unfortunately there aren't a ton of lighter SPD options. I like that I can use the same shoes/cleats between my two MTBS and my gravel bike, so I don't really want to switch to a whole new pedal system. I know the XPedos are lighter, but I've heard that they don't work all that well with SPD cleats. Eggbeaters are lighter, but I'm not a huge fan. I felt like the release was "mushy" and not as positive as the SPDS.

Grips - WTB Techtrails replaced with ESI Chunkys - 101g to 69g for a saving of 32g. Really like the Chunkys - I know that there is a "race" version that is even lighter, but I feel that these strike a good balance between weight and comfort. Took the Highball on an 85 mile, 10k feet ride and they were comfortable throughout.

Saddle - Replaced my WTB Silverado Pro with an S-Works Power saddle that I had left over from an old build. 223g down to 160g for a saving of 63g. I know that the S-Works saddle works for how I like to sit on the bike, so it was pretty familiar and comfortable. Had it already so this was "free" upgrade if you will, although I don't know if I would've spent the money on it if I didn't already have it.

Tires - Decided to go with the Kenda Booster Pros instead of the Vittoria combo. Really happy with these tires - good rolling speed, both of pavement and trails, good grip on the loose stuff, just overall great tires. Haven't put a ton of miles on them yet, but the 85 miler had a good mix of fire road, pavement, and singletrack, with some sections of really loose rock that I was able to clean no problem with these tires. I'll probably return the Vittoria's on Amazon since I still have a week to do so (never mounted them) since they are probably not grippy enough for the Tallboy 3 I'm starting to build, right?

Overall, shed 266g to go down to 10.48 kg. Good bit of lightening with some smaller parts - gonna have to drop some more weight though to get down to sub 20!

I compiled everything into a video if you guys wanna watch - thanks for following along!

Santa Cruz Highball C: Weight Weenie Build - currently at 10.48 kg
Santa Cruz Stigmata CC: Force AXS Build
VeloBuild VB-R-022: Ultegra 6800
'89 Specialized Allez: Full Dura-Ace 7400, Mavic MA40s
'91 Bridgestone MB-6: Full Suntour XCM

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prebsy
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by prebsy

speedyspaghetti wrote:
Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:05 pm
So I did a bit more work over the weekend - got the Booster Pros on there which save a bit over 100g as a pair compared to the Aspens, so that's nice. As I stated above, they roll really well and grip is good. Definite improvement over the old tires.

Also swapped out the PDM520s for XTR 9100s - not a huge weight savings, but the mechanism is definitely way smoother for clipping in and out.

Next up will be saddle - I have an S-Works Power from a bike I sold that I'll swap on there since I like the shape of it.

Still need to figure out rotors to go with the Magura MT8s I bought - unfortunately the wheelset I got is CL only - does it make more sense to get an adapter and then run 6-bolts? Or should I just get the CL version of the rotors and take the potential weight penalty? Do Shimano rotors work with Magura? Magura specs 2.0mm as their thickness and 1.8 as the minimum, whereas Shimano rotors start at 1.8 - would this be an issue?

you can totally run with regular 1.8mm rotors. you will lose some power but ....you decide. Your lightest setup for CL with be ashima Ai2 + adapter. If you want to keep it pure i think you go w the magura CL rotor but it's pretty beefy. I'm running MT4s with Storm SL.2 and CL adapters.

speedyspaghetti
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:31 am

by speedyspaghetti

Ok so quick issue that arose:

I'm getting conflicting information on the weight of my Fox 32 2019 Performance Series 32 FLOAT 29 100 fox. The website claims a 3.65 lb starting weight (1655g) but when I took mine off my bike it came out to 1390g on two different scales (one flat scale, one hanging scale) which equals 3.06 lbs. Is this almost .6 lb weight drop due to the steerer being cut down? I have the steerer cut at about 7 inches right now, but I believe an uncut steere is a bit under 10 inches. Would 3 inches of steerer really weigh almost a pound? I'm realizing that I will have to upgrade the fork to get under 20 lbs as I think the frame weight I found online is actually for an unpainted CC model, which makes my painted C model probably close a pound heavier than that.

The options to upgrade then would be either the FOX 32 Factory SC or the Rockshox SID SL Ultimate Raceday which come in at 2.98 and 2.92 lbs respectively, but this seems like a waste of money if the weight is that close to my 32 SC Performance. Can anyone confirm the weight of either of these forks with the steerer cut down to a reasonable length?
Santa Cruz Highball C: Weight Weenie Build - currently at 10.48 kg
Santa Cruz Stigmata CC: Force AXS Build
VeloBuild VB-R-022: Ultegra 6800
'89 Specialized Allez: Full Dura-Ace 7400, Mavic MA40s
'91 Bridgestone MB-6: Full Suntour XCM

speedyspaghetti
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:31 am

by speedyspaghetti

Well it has been a while since I last updated this build! Sorry for that!

I've been busy with some personal stuff over the summer, so I did not have a ton of time to work on the bike, but I did eventually get some new parts installed.

First new part was a Rotor KAPIC Carbon crankset with the iNSpider powermeter. I was able to find this crankset with the exact axle length I needed and the PM on eBay for less than the price of a new crankset without the powermeter. Score.

Image

Powermeter definitely adds some weight to the crankset, but I think it is worth it as a training tool and to have power overlays on future videos. If I'm close to my 20 lb goal and the only thing I can get rid of is the PM... well then I'll have a hard decision to make.

Unfortunately the Rotor BB that is necessary for installing this crankset is a bit heavier than the SRAM DUB one that I removed, so this was not a huge reduction in weight overall, but the new crankset definitely looks sicker and you can feel that it is stiffer too.

Old Truvativ Stylo crankset was 621.4g compared to 579.5g for the Rotor with the PM. Old BB was 74g, new one is 89g. Not a huge saving, but I'll take it.

Powermeter seems to be well calibrated and accurate, crankset is nice and stiff, oval chainring (q-ring as Rotor calls it) took a bit of getting used to, but I do like it.

Next up gonna swap out the terrible SRAM Level TL brakes (I really hate these) for some XTR M-9100s that I bought as new take offs, and then I'll re-do my saddle and pedal selection because I think I'm leaving some grams on the table with the previous choices.

Here's a short video of the crankset install and first impressions!

Santa Cruz Highball C: Weight Weenie Build - currently at 10.48 kg
Santa Cruz Stigmata CC: Force AXS Build
VeloBuild VB-R-022: Ultegra 6800
'89 Specialized Allez: Full Dura-Ace 7400, Mavic MA40s
'91 Bridgestone MB-6: Full Suntour XCM

speedyspaghetti
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:31 am

by speedyspaghetti

Got some more work done on the Highball recently!

My biggest gripe with the bike was the SRAM Level TL brakes that came with it. They lacked good stopping power, and, as a not-very-smooth-nor-very-good rider, I need stopping power. This may have been partly caused by the Jagwire Organics brake pads that I used to replace the worn SRAM pads when I bought the bike, but I also was not a huge fan of the lever feel of the SRAMs, and DOT fluid, yadda yadda, I didn't love them.

I initially planned on some Magura MT8 Pros (and actually bought them), but upon further consideration, I switched my plan to a set of Shimano XTR 2-pistons. The Maguras are pretty cool, they look sick and I like the lever design, but unfortunately they are not super light once you consider the requirements for running them. Maguras use a significantly thicker rotor (2.0mm) which needs to be replaced at 1.85mm. Due to this, you are for the most part stuck with the Magura brand rotors and even their lightest ones, the Storm SL, come in at 118g each for the 6-bolt version (and I am going to need CL based on the wheels that I bought for the Highball) or 194g for the Storm CL which are centerlock. So when I consider the added weight of an adapter, I'm losing most of my weight savings just through the rotors.

Enter the XTRs. I found these as new take-offs on PinkBike and saved a few dollars after returning the Maguras. I like the SLX 4-pistons I have on my Ripmo AF, and the XTRs use an identical lever design. Stopping power on Shimanos tends to be a bit less linear than SRAMs, but they make up for it with more initial bite in my opinion. Add to that the fact that Shimano uses mineral oil rather than DOT fluid, and you have a recipe for success.

The old SRAM Level TL levers came in at 192.8g for the pair, while the XTRs are 136.4g, for a weight savings of 56.4g. I imagine the vast majority of this is due to the carbon lever blades on the XTRS.

The calipers (including hoses) were 302g for the SRAMs and 267.5g for the XTRs, resulting in a savings of 34.5g.

Finally, I also replaced my ESI Chunky grips with ESI Racer's Edge ones since I accidentally tore one of the Chunkys while removing them. Chunkys were 70.9g, compared to 54.8 for the RE, a total saving of 16.1g.

All in all, I was able to shave 107g off the weight of the bike in this round, resulting in a current weight of 10.345kg, or 22.81 lbs.

Next up, I'm going to re-do a few previous choices, by changing out the saddle and pedals, while also shaving some weight off of the seat post.

Thank you all for following along!

Here's the video for this past round of savings.

Santa Cruz Highball C: Weight Weenie Build - currently at 10.48 kg
Santa Cruz Stigmata CC: Force AXS Build
VeloBuild VB-R-022: Ultegra 6800
'89 Specialized Allez: Full Dura-Ace 7400, Mavic MA40s
'91 Bridgestone MB-6: Full Suntour XCM

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InDustWeTrust
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun May 27, 2018 10:33 pm

by InDustWeTrust

Great build, check mine. What is the total weight in this one?

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InDustWeTrust
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun May 27, 2018 10:33 pm

by InDustWeTrust

10.4Kg I see, still a long way to go. Mine is 9,125Kg

speedyspaghetti
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:31 am

by speedyspaghetti

InDustWeTrust wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:32 am
Great build, check mine. What is the total weight in this one?
Can you link your build? Can't seem to find it!
Santa Cruz Highball C: Weight Weenie Build - currently at 10.48 kg
Santa Cruz Stigmata CC: Force AXS Build
VeloBuild VB-R-022: Ultegra 6800
'89 Specialized Allez: Full Dura-Ace 7400, Mavic MA40s
'91 Bridgestone MB-6: Full Suntour XCM

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



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