2019 Santa Cruz Highball C WW Project

Discuss light weight issues concerning mountain bikes & parts.

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Weasel
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:18 am

by Weasel

I agree actually - they do rub a bit, but TBH - I only ever notice it before/after a ride, wheeling the bike around or cleaning it. I don't really notice it when riding - unlike on the road bikes which drives me mad after any hard braking!
And I guess I've been lucky, but I've never had the 'pleasure' of having to bleed them - just replaced the pads every now and then.

speedyspaghetti
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:31 am

by speedyspaghetti

What are your guys' thoughts on the Magura MT8 Pro? I have about $300 in Amazon gift cards which I'd like to put toward the bike and that would cover most of a set of the Maguras. Seems to have gotten decent reviews, although might not be a huge weight savings over my Level TLs (although I also just want better brakes and non-DOT brakes if possible).

If not the Maguras, what else would you guy recommend from Amazon?

Also, anyone have experience with the PYC brand 12 speed chains on SRAM drivetrains?
Santa Cruz Highball C: Weight Weenie Build - currently at 10.48 kg
Santa Cruz Stigmata CC: Force AXS Build
VeloBuild VB-R-022: Ultegra 6800
'89 Specialized Allez: Full Dura-Ace 7400, Mavic MA40s
'91 Bridgestone MB-6: Full Suntour XCM

by Weenie


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robbosmans
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Location: Central Belgium
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by robbosmans

I have the Magura MT 8 SL’s and I really like them, way better modulation than shimano’s and plenty of power.

Here is my current build: Merida Big9 CF3
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic? ... source=app

speedyspaghetti
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:31 am

by speedyspaghetti

robbosmans wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:38 am
I have the Magura MT 8 SL’s and I really like them, way better modulation than shimano’s and plenty of power.

Here is my current build: Merida Big9 CF3
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic? ... source=app
Nice! I just placed my order. I got the Pros instead of the SL mostly because I like the color of the Pros way better... I know, not very weight weenie of me.
Santa Cruz Highball C: Weight Weenie Build - currently at 10.48 kg
Santa Cruz Stigmata CC: Force AXS Build
VeloBuild VB-R-022: Ultegra 6800
'89 Specialized Allez: Full Dura-Ace 7400, Mavic MA40s
'91 Bridgestone MB-6: Full Suntour XCM

Weasel
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:18 am

by Weasel

speedyspaghetti wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:13 pm
Weasel wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:01 am
Yes - agree with above, carbon rims are nice and stiff, but you can get a really good set of alu rimmed wheels for about the same price as a single carbon rim - and possibly lighter(?).

My Highball is an older model, with the QR rear axle, and all the parts are similarly old, but might give you a few ideas - it's at just under 8.7kg at the moment and I'm hoping to drop a bit more when I finally change to tubeless (after a frustrating inner tube incident in the middle of nowhere!).

I've not weighed each component, but I believe the Wheelset is around 1450g - Black Series by Tune MAC 29's, which were sold by Wiggle at the time, and were basically Crest rims on Tune Hubs.
The rest of the build is basically XX1 group, Formula R1 brakes, Fox F29 RLC fork, King headset, Ritchey Superlogic Bar, seatpost & WCS stem, Fizik Antares saddle, Schwalbe Rocket Rons.
Oh man, that's a gorgeous bike! Congrats! How do you like those Formula brakes? Those look really freaking good, but $600 for a pair sounds pretty steep...

Definitely go tubeless if you can - I'll never go back to tubes after trying out tubeless.

I'm wondering how you got yours so light - what was the biggest contributor? Is yours a CC carbon? Or was that not a thing yet?
Well, I finally switched to tubeless, and it's actually increased my bike's weight to 8.80kg!
Still not bad, but I hadn't realised how much heavier the newer Rocket Ron Snake Skin tyres are compared to the older ones I was using, although they still seem to roll ok.

speedyspaghetti
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:31 am

by speedyspaghetti

Well, I finally switched to tubeless, and it's actually increased my bike's weight to 8.80kg!
Still not bad, but I hadn't realised how much heavier the newer Rocket Ron Snake Skin tyres are compared to the older ones I was using, although they still seem to roll ok.
Yeah the sealant definitely adds up if you put in the recommended amount. I'll admit I tend to put a bit less than recommended on my MTB tires, but I just replenish it a bit more often. I've *knock on wood* not had any major punctures on my MTB with tubeless yet (gravel is another story but that makes sense) so haven't really had an issue.

It's weird that tires vary so much - I weighed the Maxxis Aspens that came on the bike (pretty worn, gonna need new ones soon I think) and I got 715g each while the advertised weight for new ones is 585g. It may be the built up sealant, but I emptied all of the sealant I could see before weighing - I doubt the old sealant really adds up to 130g.

Anyway - a few updates.

1. Got the Kalloy stem - still need to decide on a bar. The Santa Cruz brand ones have a great warranty, but they are almost 100g heavier than the Mt. Zoom or Extralite ones. Extralites are out of stock in the size I want, but the bike shop I spoke to said they would be in sometime in the next few weeks. I'll do a bit more research to see just how reliable these bars are. I don't crash a lot on the XC bike...but then again no one plans their crashes.

2. Got the Ashima rotors - gonna do a brake bleed and will get these on there when I do. They seem pretty light. I weighed the SRAM Centerlines at 112g each, so if the 73g advertised weight on the Ashimas is accurate, I should see a saving of 78g, which is nice.

3. Bought the Magura MT8 Pros - not as light as the SLs, but I really like the color of the Pros and I really hate the lime green of the SLs... Should still see a decent weight drop from the SRAM Levels I have on there right now and mineral oil over DOT is nice. Will probably wait a few months to install though since I need to find a "shiftmix" adapter so I can connect the SRAM shifter directly to it.

4. Still weighing options on the wheelset - I found a guy locally selling a F/R set of I9 Hydra hubs in the correct boost spacing for $600, but he never got back to me.. oh well. The search continues.

5. I put together a short video showing off the bike and the plans for it. Not sure if its ok for me to post here, I'll remove if not, but here it is:
https://youtu.be/f92m3M7oMYw
Santa Cruz Highball C: Weight Weenie Build - currently at 10.48 kg
Santa Cruz Stigmata CC: Force AXS Build
VeloBuild VB-R-022: Ultegra 6800
'89 Specialized Allez: Full Dura-Ace 7400, Mavic MA40s
'91 Bridgestone MB-6: Full Suntour XCM

Femboy
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:52 am

by Femboy

robbosmans wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:20 pm
Welcome!

Axles are crazy heavy, hardlite is around
30g/axle, that’s a cheap upgrade.

Yeah wheels are heavy. You can get something aluminum at around 1400g. Thinking Stans crest, dt swiss…

Stem and bars is also ridiculous, 35 diameter on an xc bike lol, mt zoom/ Uno combo should save around 300g, you can trow in a MT Zoom seatpost as well and save another 100g.

Rotors, some ashima’s.

Cassette get a Garbaruk once this one wears out, cheaper and lighter than sram and shift great.

I think you can also get the better an lighter shock internals from the more expensive fox 32. Or just get a Sid SL which is better anyway
what axles would work
could I get a link?

speedyspaghetti
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:31 am

by speedyspaghetti

Alright, so it has been a while, so I figured I'd keep you all posted on the progress.

I got the bike completely tuned / fixed to make sure I have a nice, clean canvas to work on. Replaced all cables, bled the brakes, replaced pads, lowers service on the fork, new X01 Eagle chain (4g saved!). Bike feels awesome, ready to put some new parts on it... aaaaaand I crashed and broke my shoulder.... so I'm off the bike for probably a few more months unfortunately which sucks. I can hopefully get the used of my arm back soon and I can at least install some new parts, but for now I'm not able to work on it much.

Really frustrating crash - wasn't even a technical trail. Wide fire road and I just completely wiped out on a turn. Wasn't going incredibly fast, I just slid out and dislocated / broke the shoulder. Annoying, but I guess it comes with the territory...

Anyway, I was able to make a new video with these updates, but it'll probably be a while until I can do anything with the bike. I can keep planning though and buying components.

What are your guys' thoughts on Enve or I9 carbon wheelsets? I have a friend that can get me a 40% Pro discount. Still expensive though. Worth it over something like Farsports or Light Bicycle with nicer hubs?

Here's the video for whoever is interested:

Santa Cruz Highball C: Weight Weenie Build - currently at 10.48 kg
Santa Cruz Stigmata CC: Force AXS Build
VeloBuild VB-R-022: Ultegra 6800
'89 Specialized Allez: Full Dura-Ace 7400, Mavic MA40s
'91 Bridgestone MB-6: Full Suntour XCM

hwyix
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:40 pm

by hwyix

Any update on this?

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Benbo
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:41 am
Location: SF bay area

by Benbo

That looks like St. Joseph's Hill in LG. I crashed there recently too. Can be slippery when it's dry.

speedyspaghetti
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:31 am

by speedyspaghetti

Benbo wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 9:49 pm
That looks like St. Joseph's Hill in LG. I crashed there recently too. Can be slippery when it's dry.
Good eye! I actually crashed at Heintz Open Space on some of that pea gravel that they inexplicable strewn all over the trail. My Maxxis Aspens are pretty worn and I also am not a skilled enough rider to ride such a fast tire well, so I'll be trying to find a good balance of lightweight and traction.
Santa Cruz Highball C: Weight Weenie Build - currently at 10.48 kg
Santa Cruz Stigmata CC: Force AXS Build
VeloBuild VB-R-022: Ultegra 6800
'89 Specialized Allez: Full Dura-Ace 7400, Mavic MA40s
'91 Bridgestone MB-6: Full Suntour XCM

speedyspaghetti
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:31 am

by speedyspaghetti

hwyix wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 1:24 am
Any update on this?
Yup! Sorry for the delay - I've had a lot going on. Crashed my bike and broke my shoulder, moved houses, got married, had some health issues, and now I'm just now finally getting back into riding!

So I somewhat put the project on delay in terms of actually working on the bike, but I have been doing some research and I did actually make a purchase recently.

I was planning on saving wheels for later in the project as it would be A. the most expensive upgrade and B. most likely the biggest drop in weight, but the planets aligned and I found a wheelset that fits my bill for an absolute steal.

I was perusing Craigslist and found a Bontrager Kovee XXX rear wheel, brand new, for $700. This wheelset retails for $2700 before tax, and would come out to about $2900 with tax in California. They do sell the wheels separately, so I figured "ok, $700 for the rear (which had the XD driver so that's good to go) and then I'll buy a front for $1300 and I have a $2700 wheelset for $2000. I email the guy and ask for a few more photos, etc. etc., and then I ask (stupidly I thought at the time) if he by any chance had a front wheel. Turns out the new rear wheel was a warranty replacement and he did have a slightly used front! We ended up agreeing on $1300 for the set including the tubeless tape and valves. Cherry on top, he was driving to Sea Otter and dropped off the wheels at my house, so I saved myself the 4 hour round-trip drive to Marin to buy these wheels.

The Kovee XXX seem to be pretty highly regarded rims and most long-term reviews I've read are positive. The wheelset comes out to 1390g for the pair (at least according to the literature in the packaging. The website and reviews claim 1290 instead of 1390, but I have not actually weighed these myself yet. Supposedly there was an old version which was heavier and newer version in 2019 that is lighter, but I'm not 100% sure which version I have. I will have to weight myself to confirm, but for now I will go with the 1390 conservative assumption) which is up there with the lightest XC wheels. I was also considering the E*13 XCX rims which come in 40g lighter at 1350, but I've read mixed reviews about the quality of their components and warranty, in addition to the fact that these are only 24mm wide. Santa Cruz Reserve 28XCs were also an option (1367g for $2199) but I couldn't find any local shops carrying them. Roval Control SLs come in at 1240g, but upwards of $2500, so these were definitely not my first choice originally. The Reynolds Blacklabel come in at 1380g for $2299, but I'm not a huge fan of the look.

The Kovee's come with DT 240 hub internals in Bontrager branded hub shells. The spokes are centerpull (I was hoping for j-bend and I believe the strength benefit is worth the small penalty in weighty) but these are only made in centerpull format. Similarly, these only come with a centerlock option. Again, not my preference and I was hoping to put Ashima rotors on whatever new wheels I bought, so I will have to gain back some grams there.

All in all, while not 100% the perfect wheelset for my application, this was too good of a deal to pass up when I stumbled across it.
PXL_20220410_013316630.jpg
I will soon mount these wheels and I'm predicting a pretty significant diet of grams with them, but I have two important things to decide first:

1. I need new tires. My Maxxis Aspens are rather worn and do not really stick well to anything. These are pretty slick tires to start with, but being worn has exascerbated the issue. I definitely do not have the skill to ride these super-fast XC tires on the loose stuff I ride around here, so I'm looking for an alternative. I did purchase a set of Kenda Booster Pro SCTs 29x2.2 a few months ago with the idea of mounting them on whatever rims I ended up buying, but I am having some second thoughts as these are also meant to be fast XC tires. Does anyone have any experience with these? How do they grip in loose California dirt? I'm also considering something a bit grippier, although a tad bit heavier, maybe something like a Vittoria Barzo up front and Mezcal in the back. Do you guys have any suggestions on tire combos that might balance loose grip and speed with weight relatively well? Luckily, I do have the old model of Aspens on my bike currently, and those come in over 700g each, so I am not going from the lighter new model to something much heavier.

2. If I'm going to ride these wheels, I need centerlock rotors. It seems to me that Shimano XT and XTR are the most obvious choices here. Is there a reason to add the weight of an adapater and then do a 6-bolt like the Ashimas? Are there any other centerlock rotors I should be looking at?

Thanks for following along - I should hopefully have another video out soon!
Santa Cruz Highball C: Weight Weenie Build - currently at 10.48 kg
Santa Cruz Stigmata CC: Force AXS Build
VeloBuild VB-R-022: Ultegra 6800
'89 Specialized Allez: Full Dura-Ace 7400, Mavic MA40s
'91 Bridgestone MB-6: Full Suntour XCM

stoney
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:26 am

by stoney

Kenda Booster Pro will provide better cornering grip than a similar sized Maxxis Aspen.

speedyspaghetti
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:31 am

by speedyspaghetti

stoney wrote:
Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:10 am
Kenda Booster Pro will provide better cornering grip than a similar sized Maxxis Aspen.
That's great to hear - I haven't installed them yet, but I did see that they got good reviews. Have you ridden on a set?
Santa Cruz Highball C: Weight Weenie Build - currently at 10.48 kg
Santa Cruz Stigmata CC: Force AXS Build
VeloBuild VB-R-022: Ultegra 6800
'89 Specialized Allez: Full Dura-Ace 7400, Mavic MA40s
'91 Bridgestone MB-6: Full Suntour XCM

hwyix
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:40 pm

by hwyix

speedyspaghetti wrote:
Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:14 pm
hwyix wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 1:24 am
Any update on this?
Yup! Sorry for the delay - I've had a lot going on. Crashed my bike and broke my shoulder, moved houses, got married, had some health issues, and now I'm just now finally getting back into riding!

Thanks for following along - I should hopefully have another video out soon!
Congrats on getting married!!!!

I have a bolt/screw in my right shoulder from wresting and way too many shoulder dislocations. I feel for ya.

I wanted to buy the Highball but could find any in my size in the bay area. My bday was coming up so I went out and got a blur in steads. It's almost a hard tail. lol

My Blur C S size med without pedals comes out to 11.97 kg. I will still follow along.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

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