Icarus Documentary

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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Sweetbabyj45
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by Sweetbabyj45

I'm hoping Fogel creates some other documentary/series with all the interviews and other investigation he did before his story turned towards the Olympics. Apparently he has "hundreds" of interviews around doping within cycling which he did before the story got "sidetracked".

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Shrike
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by Shrike

Yes Icarus 2 where he picks up the trail would be great and satisfy those that wanted that story to get told to its fullest extent. He likely has new leads and ideas to do an even better job now than he could have then.

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mrgray
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by mrgray

i really liked fogel's work although other great examples of doco's that highlight the ease with which an amateur, with some medical supervision, can beat the passport system, do exist (here is one). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_AtDD3GWVQ

so to some degree the path fogel was going down (first half) wasn't novel.

i too thought it would be interesting to see that story followed through. but really the 1st half segues into the second half because the inference of the first half is "one can dope and get away it, and doping makes a difference", second half is this message writ large on an olympic event (sochi).

after watching stuff like this, one would be a bit mad to assume that any elite athlete, who depends on endurance and is competing for prizes, with great team support, is not doping.

and further i would assert that this conclusion is supported by the performances of modern day pros versus the epo hey days.
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jfranci3
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by jfranci3

AJS914 wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:48 pm
BTW, Armstrong interviewed Fogel on his podcast.

https://soundcloud.com/user-411867241
I listened to this. LA doesn't talk much about his drug use, but he gave some insights "You didn't need to do all those.... only the EPO. Once you have the red cells....." Makes you wonder if EPO is UNDER abused in pro sports.

AJS914
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by AJS914

Tyler Hamilton kind of said the same thing - it's all about the red blood cells. He used testosterone for recovery. Of course, both Hamilton and Armstrong had the same doping doctor.

jfranci3
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by jfranci3

I'd imagine taking your FTP up 100pts puts a lot of stress on everything else. You'd need a crap load of help recovering.

Shrike
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by Shrike

Probably more like 20 to 40 watts and that would be with a very well administered and supervised routine by an experienced doctor. You can find studies recently where the subjects didn't even improve. I think in one case they actually performed worse.

Must be loads of amateurs taking easily available EPO and not really getting anything much out of it other than a lighter wallet and a placebo effect.

But, if you did know what you were doing, or had a top flight dodgy doc, then 20 to 40 watts to FTP would be a huge benefit. Or even some effect at VO2. Just a few % here or there is race winning.

Would love Fogel to go back and really get into this, really thrash it all out. What works, what doesn't, just lay it all out. Loads of ground to be covered yet.

AJS914
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by AJS914

One of the takeaways from Tyler Hamilton's book was that the doping allowed one to train harder and recover faster. If an amateur doesn't take the training to the next level then they might not get much benefit.

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Hellgate
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by Hellgate

AJS914 wrote:One of the takeaways from Tyler Hamilton's book was that the doping allowed one to train harder and recover faster. If an amateur doesn't take the training to the next level then they might not get much benefit.
You nailed it. It's all about quick recovery from hard efforts, ie: grand tour racing.

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Rich_W
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by Rich_W

I just read on Bryan Fogel's Instagram feed that Grigory Rodchenkov will be on 60 Minutes this coming Sunday.

Check out this link, he's heavily disguised. Love they are airing this at the start of the Olympics.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/running-fr ... him-cheat/

bilwit
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by bilwit

The only thing I didn't like is that they didn't really make it clear in the beginning that Rodchenkov knew that he was working on something to help expose doping in the beginning (before the whole thing blew up into his whistleblower story).
Shrike wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:17 pm
Yes Icarus 2 where he picks up the trail would be great and satisfy those that wanted that story to get told to its fullest extent. He likely has new leads and ideas to do an even better job now than he could have then.
Don't think so. He lucked out in a once in a lifetime situation. Absolutely incredible if you think about it. He stumbled his way into being connected with him, then gained his trust to be a bonified confidant and personal liaison centered in the biggest scandal in sporting history. It also kind of shows that it's not easy to get away with unless you have some pretty epic resources available to you (backed by the state) or participate in amateur events that don't test. Very disturbing seeing that there is no limit to corruption in "WADA-approved" labs and how little its representatives know what's really going on.
Last edited by bilwit on Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

AJS914
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by AJS914

i wonder why he is disguised on 60 minutes.

AJS914
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by AJS914

http://www.velonews.com/2018/02/news/po ... ing_456874

If small budget U23 teams are systematically doping and not getting caught by tests why would we think that the pro peloton is doing anything different? The pros have more money and resources.

Shrike
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by Shrike

Maybe he looks different in some way these days (not sure how) and it's his new style or appearance that's worth concealing.

Maybe they're just being dramatic :)

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glepore
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by glepore

AJS914 wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:20 am
i wonder why he is disguised on 60 minutes.
Witness protection, probably a condition of the program even though the film is out there
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