Ligero hubs

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gumgardner
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by gumgardner

Just wondering what everyone thinks of the Ligero hubs. His wheel builds are awesome, but now he only builds with these hubs. Am I better off going with a different wheel builder and using Tune hubs and Edge 38's?

Anybody have any first hand knowledge?

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CharlesM
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by CharlesM

Gum the hubs are really good.

He should have info up on them shortly but that hub design is done after he and a few other guys decided to address little issues with the typical aftermarket hubs used.

Even the bearings are great. Phillwood abec 10 when most folks mess in the 6 range.



I have gear comming out of my ears and I bought a set after a short test...

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coloclimber
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by coloclimber

PezTech wrote:I have gear coming out of my ears and I bought a set after a short test...


Ouch- get a q-tip or better yet send some gear this way..

I have the hubs on some Edge wheels. They are good hubs and the front is very well thought out, stiff by design and and rolls smooth on large bearings. Check with Jeremy at Alchemy as well. The rear has quite a bit of friction in the freehub at first but that goes away with time and miles. Troy could have gone lighter but stuck with a steel freehub body for durability reasons. I dont know if they are available separately but they make a nice pair for the weight and price (and come in colors too).
-Deacon Doctor Colorado Slim

Phill P
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by Phill P

What benefit do the abec 10 bearings give? ABEC measures only the external dimensions of the bearing, is the rest fot he hub built to such a high tolerance that this makes a difference?
ABEC 5 is probably as good as any hub would need I'd think.

However that said Phil Wood bearings due have an excellent repuation, so I'm not denying that. I'd like to know what makes them so good (I'm an engineer....I like to know why things are good...)

2002SaecoReplica
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by 2002SaecoReplica

gumgardner wrote:Just wondering what everyone thinks of the Ligero hubs. His wheel builds are awesome, but now he only builds with these hubs. Am I better off going with a different wheel builder and using Tune hubs and Edge 38's?

Anybody have any first hand knowledge?


These are probably the best hubs on the market right now, and here's why. These hubs move the flanges farther apart than any other hub on the market, 11 degrees wider. What this does is increase the triangle between the spokes, rim, and hub. This translates into increased stiffness without having to add additional spokes.

The APEC10 bearings means(in a nutshell) that you can keep the steel balls and not having to upgrade them to ceramic.
- Zipp rims will break if you look at them too hard
- R-Sys wheels will spontaneously explode
- The ZG crankset will never, ever exist
- Everyone needs Lightweights, even if they're fat and old
- Parts actually made of metal are SO 10 years ago

Phill P
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by Phill P

2002SaecoReplica wrote:
gumgardner wrote:
The APEC10 bearings means(in a nutshell) that you can keep the steel balls and not having to upgrade them to ceramic.


No...it doesn't....

ABEC rating measure the EXTERNAL dimensions of the bearings. ID, OD, width etc. So unless the axle and hub shell are made to extremely high tolerances, and the fit is so well aligned, this will make zero difference.

Went and checked the Phil Wood website. Apparently they spec the materials, the finish tolerance, the clearances, the seals, the grease etc, but don't tell what any of these are (have to take thier word for it). I'm curious as to what was specced that makes the bearings better than the large bearing manufacturers do standard (and of course they want the best bearings too!)

2 wheels
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by 2 wheels

AFAIK there isn't even such a thing as specified ABEC Tolerance Class named "ABEC 10" in the ABEC standard - or any even ABEC number for that matter. ABEC Bearing Tolerance Classes are rated using an odd number between 1 and 9. So I guess it's just some guy at Phil Wood who made up the term "ABEC-10".

http://www.sme.org/cgi-bin/find-article ... E&#article
In the US, all precision bearings are manufactured to a tolerance, usually based on a standard of the America Bearing Engineers Committee (ABEC). This standard is accepted by the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) and conforms essentially to the equivalent standards of the International Organization for Standardization (ISO).

ABEC standards define tolerances for major bearing dimensions and characteristics. They are divided into mounting dimensions (bore, ID, and width), and bearing geometry. Accuracy ratings range from a low of ABEC 1, for a general-purpose bearing, to a high of ABEC 9, which describes a high precision bearing suitable for use in a high speed spindle. Typically, spindle bearings are manufactured with geometric accuracy of ABEC 9, to provide minimum runout and rotational accuracy. However, bore, OD, and width are manufactured to ABEC 7, which allows for a more reasonable fitting and installation.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABEC_scale
ABEC scale
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The ABEC scale is a system used throughout the manufacturing industry for rating the manufacturing tolerances of precision bearings, developed by the Annular Bearing Engineering Committee (ABEC) of the American Bearing Manufacturers Association (ABMA). Bearings are rated using an odd number between 1 and 9. The higher the number, the greater the manufactured precision of the bearing. Bearings manufactured within tighter tolerance ranges provide greater accuracy of shaft rotation and contribute to higher speed capability. However, the ABEC rating does not specify many other critical factors, such as smoothness of the rolling contact surfaces, ball precision, and material quality[1].

There are no required materials to meet the ABEC specifications required to be rated on the scale, but the bearings must be made to a certain accuracy and precision. Bearings not conforming to at least ABEC 1 are not precision bearings. ABEC and ISO precision gradings are used for bearings throughout the industry.

The scale is designed to allow a user to make an informed decision about the type of bearing they are purchasing. High rated bearings are intended for precision applications like aircraft instruments or surgical equipment. Lower grades are intended for the vast majority of applications such as vehicles, mechanical hobbies, skates, fishing reels and industrial machinery. High ABEC rated bearings allow optimal performance of critical applications requiring very high RPM and smooth operation. High ABEC rated bearings do not make equipment go faster however they allow high precision equipment to operate at their optimum speed and efficiency[2].

The approximate[3] equivalent ISO standard[4] is ISO 492.[citation needed]

Code: Select all

ABEC      ISO 492

ABEC 1    normal
          class 6X
ABEC 3    class 6
ABEC 5    class 5
ABEC 7    class 4
ABEC 9    class 2


Ball Bearings, All Types Specifications (including ABEC Tolerance Class specifitaions):
http://mechanical-components.globalspec ... _All_Types
Last edited by 2 wheels on Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:58 am, edited 6 times in total.

bikemesenger
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by bikemesenger

gumgardner wrote:Am I better off going with a different wheel builder and using Tune hubs and Edge 38's?


It wouldn't matter if I was still building with them. The problem with Tune hubs right now is getting them in the US, there is no US distributor anymore. Jason at Fairwheel still imports them but I don't know how much he brings in at a time. The weight difference between a pair of Tune hubs and mine is only 30g, 260g vs 290g.

If you want to try out a pair of wheels I will send you a pair to try out.

coloclimber wrote:The rear has quite a bit of friction in the freehub at first but that goes away with time and miles.


That is the seals that need to break in.

coloclimber wrote:Troy could have gone lighter but stuck with a steel freehub body for durability reasons.


It is a titanium freehub body.

wally318
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by wally318

My guess would be that they are an Abec 5 or 7 bearing with a grade 10 steel ball. The abec # stands for the production tolerance of the bearing parts and the grade for the tolerance of only the balls. 10 millionth's is the best you can get with steel.
AEROLITUS-defender of the faith

gumgardner
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by gumgardner

BTW Ligeros new website is up and running. http://www.ligerowheels.com

Thanks for the offer Troy. This discussion helped me realize that these hubs are the way to go.

2002SaecoReplica
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by 2002SaecoReplica

- Zipp rims will break if you look at them too hard
- R-Sys wheels will spontaneously explode
- The ZG crankset will never, ever exist
- Everyone needs Lightweights, even if they're fat and old
- Parts actually made of metal are SO 10 years ago

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runner999
Posts: 316
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Location: Bay State

by runner999

What's the story with these from Troy's site?:
Model 7 – Carbon Tubular 24mm (945g):
- Ligero SLW Hubset
- Custom Sapim CX-Ray Spokes
- 24mm Edge Composite Tubular Rim
- Lightweight Climbing Wheel

Did not know Edge Composite made a 24mm tubular rim. Is this a typo? Sounds really interesting if it's true.

2002SaecoReplica
Posts: 1925
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 pm
Location: Getting dropped

by 2002SaecoReplica

runner999 wrote:What's the story with these from Troy's site?:
Model 7 – Carbon Tubular 24mm (945g):
- Ligero SLW Hubset
- Custom Sapim CX-Ray Spokes
- 24mm Edge Composite Tubular Rim
- Lightweight Climbing Wheel

Did not know Edge Composite made a 24mm tubular rim. Is this a typo? Sounds really interesting if it's true.


They make a 24mm tubular rim if your name is Troy Watson...
- Zipp rims will break if you look at them too hard
- R-Sys wheels will spontaneously explode
- The ZG crankset will never, ever exist
- Everyone needs Lightweights, even if they're fat and old
- Parts actually made of metal are SO 10 years ago

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runner999
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Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:01 am
Location: Bay State

by runner999

2002SaecoReplica wrote:
runner999 wrote:What's the story with these from Troy's site?:
Model 7 – Carbon Tubular 24mm (945g):
- Ligero SLW Hubset
- Custom Sapim CX-Ray Spokes
- 24mm Edge Composite Tubular Rim
- Lightweight Climbing Wheel

Did not know Edge Composite made a 24mm tubular rim. Is this a typo? Sounds really interesting if it's true.


They make a 24mm tubular rim if your name is Troy Watson...


I clicked on the wheel from Troy's Site. No name on the rim. Very nice looking wheelset indeed!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ligerowheels/2811297401/in/set-72157605749516696/

by Weenie


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Tubes6al4v
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by Tubes6al4v

The 24mm is the New Edge super lightweight rim (215g is the usual quoted weight). Looks bad ass. When I get a real WW wheelset, those will be on it.

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