New Giant TCR Advanced announced

[pmprego]

So what are the differences between the TCR and the Langma (or Propel/EnviLiv) other than a slightly altered geometry and different specs?

A big one I can see is the SL-grade Langma does not use an ISP. That would require a new layup schedule. Same for the EnviLiv.

That is a positive for me.

Liv also aegues that their absolute stiffness is not as high as the tcr given that their riders are expected to be lighter.

[bedampft]

If you think Liv models are "is just, design-wise, a copy of the TCR with slightly altered geometry and different specs" than maybe you don't value their Liv brand or understand their product cycle. So who cares?
You didn't even know they were riding an aero bike.

So what are the differences between the TCR and the Langma (or Propel/EnviLiv) other than a slightly altered geometry and different specs?

I mentioned aero, because the primary difference between the old TCR and the new TCR is that it has hidden cables. From a performance standpoint, this is usually done for aerodynamic reasons. The men, if they want a frame with integrated cables, now have a choice between a Propel and a TCR. Women only have the choice of the EnviLiv. I was well aware of the existence of the EnviLiv, but this is the TCR thread.

Fort starters, they have a different layup. The ride quality is build for a lighter rider. A guy with 1,80m will fit somewhat on a Large Langma, but if he weighs 100kg it will ride like shit, compared to a TCR. Even "worse" for the smaller sizes, if you are a somewhat average build guy, riding a Liv Roadbike. Smaller Roadcycling women tend not to weigh 90kg. And by the way, that's also a thing for Mountainbikes, where suspension is pre tuned for the expected body weight of the rider fitting on the bike.
Geometry and sizing is the next obvious thing. Giant stops at Small, which is a bit smaller than a Liv in Medium, and Liv goes down to XXS, some even XXXS. On the other side, Giant goes up to XXL, Liv only to Large, roughly a M/L in Giant.

And one last thing, Liv and Giant are both Brands of the Giant Group, but act mostly independent in Marketing. And in Marketing, the last thing you want is to have the same release window as another brand, or even worse, the same day. You want the focus on you, in the markets that are important for your business. And if you found the release of some Liv Bikes underwhelming for you, as a guy(?), it's a job well done. You are not the target audience. Online advertisement and marketing in general is tailored to your personal online bubble. That shouldn't be new news. And if it is for you, ask yourself, why your're not seeing ads for women's cosmetics or clothes.

Speaking of clothes, apparentley women are not build differently for bicycles, so we should all wear the same tailored garments and shoes. After all, body sizes and measurements are the same for man and women, right?

[pmprego]

In my case, long legs, shorter torso, the liv geometry fits me much better than a tcr.

If they go hidden cables, d-shaped steerer becomes a problem as i get restricted to the -10° degree stems which then replicates specialized tarmac geometry. My escape would be to go for a -6° stem on the liv and that way end up with fewer spacers.

[raisinberry777]

Fort starters, they have a different layup. The ride quality is build for a lighter rider. A guy with 1,80m will fit somewhat on a Large Langma, but if he weighs 100kg it will ride like shit, compared to a TCR. Even "worse" for the smaller sizes, if you are a somewhat average build guy, riding a Liv Roadbike. Smaller Roadcycling women tend not to weigh 90kg. And by the way, that's also a thing for Mountainbikes, where suspension is pre tuned for the expected body weight of the rider fitting on the bike.

Of course they do - but this is already the case for major brands between sizes - this should not be gender specific. A bike made for an XS rider weighing ~60-70kg is of course going to have a different layup to a bike for an XL-sized weighing 85-100+kg - this is not a gender-specific. Specialized have been advertising this for years.

And one last thing, Liv and Giant are both Brands of the Giant Group, but act mostly independent in Marketing. And in Marketing, the last thing you want is to have the same release window as another brand, or even worse, the same day. You want the focus on you, in the markets that are important for your business.

Giant launched the new Defy along with the new Liv Avail at the same time last year - in fact, the Liv was even launched a day before. Do you think that maybe this went poorly and they are reacting to this? Given that I had not remembered this earlier, your point is fair enough here - though as you say, obviously I am not the target market for this bike so it's to be expected that I forgot when the last Liv Avail launched.

And if you found the release of some Liv Bikes underwhelming for you, as a guy(?), it's a job well done. You are not the target audience. Online advertisement and marketing in general is tailored to your personal online bubble. That shouldn't be new news.

Jesus, I'm not that naive. However, the release of the TCR just had a bike press junket flown to Taiwan specifically for the launch for first ride impressions and a tour of Giant's manufacturing facility. I somehow doubt the next-generation Langma will get the same treatment - but I'd be very happy for Liv/Giant to prove me wrong.

Speaking of clothes, apparentley women are not build differently for bicycles, so we should all wear the same tailored garments and shoes. After all, body sizes and measurements are the same for man and women, right?

I think you've taken my statement the wrong way here. I'm not criticising Giant for making women's-specific bikes - I applaud them for doing so in a commercial environment that is usually seen as difficult or not worth the bother (particularly regarding geometry for small sizes). Given that the men's and women's road lineups mirror each other in regards to design, to me it seems pretty poor of Giant to launch new technology for men first, with women getting it later once they've sorted out the smaller sizes/specific layups. The most recent Defy/Avail launch occurred at the same time and it seems a bit odd that the TCR/Langma are not on the same schedule. There are obviously reasons for doing so that I'm not privy to.

[CJosephB]

I was watching Giant's How the TCR was made video on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-2Hw3m4gPw) and saw this aero bar? is this the new Cadex Aero Integrated handlebar (That's a mouthful, lol)

https://www.cadex-cycling.com/us/cadex- ... lebar-2023

[aandresgm]

I remember reading somewhere in the marketing materials that the new cockpit also includes a new stem, but, from all the pictures I've so far, it looks physically identical to the Contact SLR OD2 stem we already knew. Do we know if there are indeed any changes? Is the cable routing going through the stem or underneath it?

[Upcountry]

This popped up in my feed... Lovely build from a Singapore shop, Tay Junction.

[Upcountry]

@aandresgm

[CJosephB]

This popped up in my feed... Lovely build from a Singapore shop, Tay Junction.

Thanks for sharing. That looks great! Looks like somebody got a hold of the Cadex Race Integrated Handlebar.

That team Jayco colors of the new TCR is simply amazing!

[EtoDemerzel]

I really hope that team colorway becomes a regular choice for frameset builds. Stunner.

[pmprego]

I really hope that team colorway becomes a regular choice for frameset builds. Stunner.

[aandresgm]

@aandresgm

Thank you! Haven't seen this one for sale on the European market.

[CJosephB]

I really hope that team colorway becomes a regular choice for frameset builds. Stunner.

Somebody asked in the official Giant Bicycles Facebook page and they (Giant) said it will be available as a frame set. When, don't know....

[Upcountry]

I really like the Jayco Alula team bike colorway too... Although I do wonder how similar the upcoming Redbull SL8 will end up looking...

[EtoDemerzel]

I really hope that team colorway becomes a regular choice for frameset builds. Stunner.

Somebody asked in the official Giant Bicycles Facebook page and they (Giant) said it will be available as a frame set. When, don't know....

thanks for the update
that's pretty cool