Upgrading A Specialized Allez

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mimason
Posts: 654
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:43 pm
Location: Florida

by mimason

JamesGRC wrote:I am toying with the idea of SRAM force but I personally prefer shimano and most people I know who've tried it have gone to shimano but is is a little lighter than ultegra. I know I said I wanted 7kgs but I really like aero wheels now! Any thoughts on these:
[url][/url]http://www.wiggle.co.uk/token-c50-full-carbon-clincher-wheelset/
[url][/url]http://www.wiggle.co.uk/fulcrum-red-wind-50-xlr-cult-clincher-wheelset-1/
[url][/url]http://www.wiggle.co.uk/fulcrum-racing-quattro-carbon-clincher-wheelset/
[url][/url]http://www.wiggle.co.uk/campagnolo-bullet-ultra-50-cult-bright-label-carbon-wheelset/
[url][/url]http://www.wiggle.co.uk/campagnolo-bora-one-50-tubular-road-wheelset/
[url][/url]http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-dura-ace-9000-c50-clincher-wheelset/
I know there's a lot there haha


Sram Force is underrated and really good but understand you wanting Shimano. For 1500 your currency you should be able to scrounge up Ultegra(or most of it and consider getting some used to save $) and some nice wheels. Of those you listed the Shimano are heavy and I would add Fulcrum Speed 40s to the list.

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JamesGRC
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:13 pm

by JamesGRC

lrdunc wrote:I had a 2014 Allez Sport with 9-speed Sora. I'm on a different bike now, but I upgraded to 105 5800 before I got the new frame. The difference between the two groups is pretty astronomical, in my opinion. I've ridden Ultegra 6800 and Dura Ace 9000 (both mechanical) and so understand that they're "better", but honestly, 105 5800 is a massive upgrade over Sora. I would definitely put that toward the top of your list.

Really helpful thanks! Would you say there was any downside? I've heard the shifting isn't quite as good as ultegra so replace shifters? I'd probably get a different crankset as well as I've heard that's a good area to save weight.

JamesGRC
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:13 pm

by JamesGRC

mimason wrote:
JamesGRC wrote:I am toying with the idea of SRAM force but I personally prefer shimano and most people I know who've tried it have gone to shimano but is is a little lighter than ultegra. I know I said I wanted 7kgs but I really like aero wheels now! Any thoughts on these:
[url][/url]http://www.wiggle.co.uk/token-c50-full-carbon-clincher-wheelset/
[url][/url]http://www.wiggle.co.uk/fulcrum-red-wind-50-xlr-cult-clincher-wheelset-1/
[url][/url]http://www.wiggle.co.uk/fulcrum-racing-quattro-carbon-clincher-wheelset/
[url][/url]http://www.wiggle.co.uk/campagnolo-bullet-ultra-50-cult-bright-label-carbon-wheelset/
[url][/url]http://www.wiggle.co.uk/campagnolo-bora-one-50-tubular-road-wheelset/
[url][/url]http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-dura-ace-9000-c50-clincher-wheelset/
I know there's a lot there haha


Sram Force is underrated and really good but understand you wanting Shimano. For 1500 your currency you should be able to scrounge up Ultegra(or most of it and consider getting some used to save $) and some nice wheels. Of those you listed the Shimano are heavy and I would add Fulcrum Speed 40s to the list.

Thanks I'll have a look at the 40s

JamesGRC
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:13 pm

by JamesGRC

Just looked at the 40s. They are insanely light but unfortunately don't seem to be sold in gb and if converting from euros then it's a fair bit over budget :(

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lrdunc
Posts: 340
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:45 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

by lrdunc

I would bet that you wouldn't be able to tell the 5800 / 6800 shifters apart were you to blind test them. I'm not going to argue that the 5800 shifters are "just as good" - frankly, I haven't been riding long enough / don't have enough experience with the different groups to make any sort of claim like that. But I will say that, especially from a cost perspective, 5800 is awesome.

JamesGRC
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:13 pm

by JamesGRC

I had heard the indexing was a little better with ultegra shifters but you're selling it pretty positively so as long as they aren't too much heavier than the ultegra ones I'll add 105 to my list

Dez33
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:02 am

by Dez33

vejnemojnen wrote:for that money, you could just sell the whole bike and get yourself a rose or canyon with better equipement, or, a radon :)

http://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/rado ... /wg_id-111


Good advice, I wouldn't upgrade an A1 Allez, at least sell and get an E5. There's a noticeable difference in stiffness. You will spend less in the long run selling and buying a complete bike again at that level.

Philbar72
Posts: 185
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:47 am

by Philbar72

here's what I'd get for a crit Allez.

1) hunt aero race wheels. £399, not the lightest but spin up well and roll nicely. only 31mm deep though so the aero part is a bit misleading. very comfy yet react well to jumps and sprinting, hubs are excellent btw. or alternatively farsports carbon wheels ( 35 or 50mm) various prices.
2) New groupset - I'd suggest a hybrid of 105 5800 shifters, a dura ace 9000 front mech and a ultegra rear mech.
3) a chainset that can cope with racing so dependant on what you are targeting, perhaps a 52/36 or 53/39 ultegra or other similar chainset. if you want it to be adjustable, maybe go rotor and get some TA Chainrings as they are decent bang for buck.
4) rest goes on contact points, saddle and bars. if you need an upgrade. maybe a carbon seatpost?

JamesGRC
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:13 pm

by JamesGRC

Philbar72 wrote:here's what I'd get for a crit Allez.

1) hunt aero race wheels. £399, not the lightest but spin up well and roll nicely. only 31mm deep though so the aero part is a bit misleading. very comfy yet react well to jumps and sprinting, hubs are excellent btw. or alternatively farsports carbon wheels ( 35 or 50mm) various prices.
2) New groupset - I'd suggest a hybrid of 105 5800 shifters, a dura ace 9000 front mech and a ultegra rear mech.
3) a chainset that can cope with racing so dependant on what you are targeting, perhaps a 52/36 or 53/39 ultegra or other similar chainset. if you want it to be adjustable, maybe go rotor and get some TA Chainrings as they are decent bang for buck.
4) rest goes on contact points, saddle and bars. if you need an upgrade. maybe a carbon seatpost?

I'd probably spend a bit more on wheels like these http://www.wiggle.co.uk/fulcrum-red-wind-50-xlr-cult-clincher-wheelset-1/ and then a mixture of 105 and ultegra and maybe an fsa or praxis crankset. I haven't really looked at rotor yet and why do you suggest a dura ace front mech?

Hexsense
Posts: 3270
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

Whatever group-set you get,
i recommend Ultegra Crankset (stiffer than DA, much Lighter than 105 plus having better chain shifting aid ramp in the back of big chain ring)
OR Sram RED crankset in BB30 version which will reduce weight very significantly because you are using OSBB frame which is compatible with BB30 without big and heavy bottom bracket adapter for Shimano crankset. (Don't get Force/Rival etc. as they are heavier than Ultegra.) (just buy crank arm second hand and add Praxis Buzz road ring to it is another even lighter option.)
OR Canondale Si with SISL ring, if you like the design (i don't).

105 shifters are fine. It have virtually the same design as Ultegra (but different from DA). However, the cable that come with it is noticeably worse. Get DA or Ultegra level cable improve things a lot.

if you have more budget to upgrade just some component:
Front Derailleur i believe DA is not expensive but being better, so another upgrade here.
Brakes, I would personally use Ultegra here. I would save up for EE brakes instead of going DA. (not really difference in performance (not the weight), it's more on brake pad selection than the caliper itself.)

JamesGRC
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:13 pm

by JamesGRC

Hexsense wrote:Whatever group-set you get,
i recommend Ultegra Crankset (stiffer than DA, much Lighter than 105 plus having better chain shifting aid ramp in the back of big chain ring)
OR Sram RED crankset in BB30 version which will reduce weight very significantly because you are using OSBB frame which is compatible with BB30 without big and heavy bottom bracket adapter for Shimano crankset. (Don't get Force/Rival etc. as they are heavier than Ultegra.) (just buy crank arm second hand and add Praxis Buzz road ring to it is another even lighter option.)
OR Canondale Si with SISL ring, if you like the design (i don't).

105 shifters are fine. It have virtually the same design as Ultegra (but different from DA). However, the cable that come with it is noticeably worse. Get DA or Ultegra level cable improve things a lot.

if you have more budget to upgrade just some component:
Front Derailleur i believe DA is not expensive but being better, so another upgrade here.
Brakes, I would personally use Ultegra here. I would save up for EE brakes instead of going DA. (not really difference in
performance (not the weight), it's more on brake pad selection than the caliper itself.)

Thanks for the advice, what do you think off the rotor 3d cranks like these http://www.wiggle.co.uk/rotor-3d24-crankset-road/ as mentioned above. But lighter than sram, but cheaper, and no need for a new bb

Hexsense
Posts: 3270
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

JamesGRC wrote:
Hexsense wrote:Whatever group-set you get,
i recommend Ultegra Crankset (stiffer than DA, much Lighter than 105 plus having better chain shifting aid ramp in the back of big chain ring)
OR Sram RED crankset in BB30 version which will reduce weight very significantly because you are using OSBB frame which is compatible with BB30 without big and heavy bottom bracket adapter for Shimano crankset. (Don't get Force/Rival etc. as they are heavier than Ultegra.) (just buy crank arm second hand and add Praxis Buzz road ring to it is another even lighter option.)
OR Canondale Si with SISL ring, if you like the design (i don't).

105 shifters are fine. It have virtually the same design as Ultegra (but different from DA). However, the cable that come with it is noticeably worse. Get DA or Ultegra level cable improve things a lot.

if you have more budget to upgrade just some component:
Front Derailleur i believe DA is not expensive but being better, so another upgrade here.
Brakes, I would personally use Ultegra here. I would save up for EE brakes instead of going DA. (not really difference in
performance (not the weight), it's more on brake pad selection than the caliper itself.)

Thanks for the advice, what do you think off the rotor 3d cranks like these http://www.wiggle.co.uk/rotor-3d24-crankset-road/ as mentioned above. But lighter than sram, but cheaper, and no need for a new bb


Rotor 3d24 110 BCD 528g (crank arm only...) why do you think that is light?
Sram red bb30 crank"set" weight 558g but their big chainring weight 150g and small chainring weight 33g.
(according to viewtopic.php?f=3&t=103730 )
Lighter chain ring will reduce that even further. I believe only few chankset including Canondale SISL2, SI can match them in term of weight.
my point is going Ultegra, you get stiffness and shift quality at low price. But you may need to change BB anyway because i believe (old) Sora level crank is not the same system as Tiagra and higher.
going SRAM BB30 will utilize BB30 (which is just 2 6806 bearings and 2 dust cap, one of each for each side) with nothing else (check the price of 6806 bearing on ebay...). And the crank can use 30mm diameter axle so it can change material from steel to Aluminium or make it thinner while maintain same stiffness. It can't be any lighter than that. If i have a frame with BB30 i feel like i should utilize it. And i believe your allez use OSBB (check it first!) which compatible with BB30.

DamenH85
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:23 pm
Location: Houston, TX

by DamenH85

JamesGRC wrote:Hi its my first post on the forum so I hope someone answers!! I have a 2013 Specialized Allez Sport (A1 aluminium not E5) and I want to turn it into a race machine (sort of).

......

Would ideally like to get it down to 7-7.5kgs. I think the bike is between 9 and 10 kgs right now so it is not the lightest! Please no one say buy a carbon bike instead because I have my reasons. Any advice is greatly appreciated and any questions I am happy to answer within means.
Thanks,
James

Hi James,

I focused more on aero than weight, but I spent some time and money to upgrade my old 2010 Allez last year. Ultegra 6800, Flo 60 wheels, and Zipp SL-70 Aero bars are the main changes. And the color :)

I finally put up a post about it here: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=140412

Before:
Image

After. Just missing the handlebar tape in this one, but you get the idea:
Image

damen

JamesGRC
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:13 pm

by JamesGRC

Nice bike! Thanks for the ideas. How easy were the flo wheels to get hold of and what is the weight of the bike now? oh and how much did all the upgrades cost

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DamenH85
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:23 pm
Location: Houston, TX

by DamenH85

JamesGRC wrote:Nice bike! Thanks for the ideas. How easy were the flo wheels to get hold of and what is the weight of the bike now? oh and how much did all the upgrades cost


Flo's
I bought them during one of their traditional orders. I sit in front of a computer at work all day, so it wasn't difficult for me to be logged in right when the sale starts at 10:00:00a PST. If you can't be at a computer ready to rock when the order kicks off, they will be difficult to get.

New weight
9,314g

Cost
~$2,000
Ultegra 6800 = $600
Flo 60's w/ tires = $1,100
Zipp SL-70 Aero = $275

damen

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