DrJeffers wrote:jimborello wrote:Im was considering these options for a new bike, but there is something about the C60 that makes me drool about it. Im definitely going for a C60, Im pretty sure the ride is spot on for what you would expect from the best offering of either of these 2 brands. Dont overthink it!
Thumbs up to this. Geometry is important to a point, but there's more to it than that. A mm here, a mm there, but these bike are built in completely different ways, with very different ethos, and they have different souls and ride feel, geometry aside. But they are both racing thoroughbreds, and performance wise, for most 'mortals' both of these bikes will give you everything you want - both of these bikes have been ridden up mountains by pros in the grand tours. If one 'speaks' more to you, that's probably the one you'll ultimately be happier riding, uphill or down. If you are unsure to the point that you are agonising over rear triangle shape, you probably need to find a way to spend some time riding both and decide on the road! I think it's very hard to buy a special bike in a truly objective way - 'mojo' is a big part of the equation. What does your heart say?
It would be much easier if i can test them both in my size and one day by another
, but not possible.. Since it would be complicated way of buying them, that why im doing all this thinking.
For both of them i'll need to buy them 1000 km from my living place
, and before that i need to put some money in advance for an order, and to wait 3-4 months until i can pick it up (it would be 2000 km travel, but ok, i'll combine with Holiday).
For me, i used my brain to narrow down some key criteria (basic geometry ballpark, robustness/longevity, ride quality, quality of press fit bottom bracket implementation), and decided what wasn't particularly important to me ('weenie' frame weight) then chose with my heart from the short list- the C60 is a completely unique bike - only Colnago could build it, and that carried weight for me. The ethos and heritage and, yes, aesthetics, were important. Actually, in the end i was choosing between the C60 and Bianchi Oltre XR2. The C60 had some key objective advantages (clever BB solution, smoother ride and likely frame robustness over many years of of ownership) but it was the 'soul' stuff that really swung it. I was lucky enough to compare the two side by side in a shop, and as soon as i saw it i was blown away by mojo of the C60. It was just clearly the bike that spoke to my heart the clearest, and that quality translated to the ride. By the way, i'm also a musician - i play and own expensive guitars too, and i use exactly the same method when buying them. You need an instrument to meet key performance requirements, but after that, its all about the soul and how it feels in your hands. Whenever i have bought with my head and not my heart in the past, it has been a mistake.
U didnt go wrong not buying Oltre XR2, and im telling this allready owning a Bianchi Pista Sei Giorni. For me Oltre XR2 would be easier way, i can try it, and buy it Localy.. But i think Bianchi is far away from Pinarello and Colnago in term of quality, in term of everything.
Since u are musicion, then i'll compare with something like that, since im Audiophile and love to listen music
. All this remind me when i was buying an Preamp and Amp, also without possability of trying. At the end based on all the positive reviews, and amazed people all around the world how smooth and nice sound it is, i bough (without listening), McIntosh C2300 Tube Preamplifier and planned to buy McIntosh Amp as well.
Finally the Preamp came, classic design, nice looking...When i start playing music, all the sound were dull, soulless, and also the quaility of workmanship were not in the pair of price i payed (one knob were totaly off center, and i e-mailed McIntosh they say that they is handmade, and that why...Also they were toaly arogant if i asked some more technial question). For example Piano never sound properly. After few months, i started to blame my room, then started to playing with different tubes, but sound were totaly not good. I also had a chance to borrow McIntosh Amp to try with that, but the same dull sound, colored sound.
Luckily i had a chance to listen much cheaper device but totaly good engineering (Benchmark Dac1 Pre), which is DAC and Pramp in same time (and 4 times cheaper then McIntosh, or even more considering that replace two devices). For this device there is opinion that is very detailed sounding, not easy on ears, fatiguing.. But when i start listening Piano (and not just Piano, everything), wow.. Neutral, Natural, good imaging, the sound i wanted
If something is bad recording u'll hear it, if it's good u'll enjoy it.. Totaly honest, not colored.Since they had also McIntosh to compare in same time, i found out that this is much better, and McIntosh is just good Marketing and they live on their Hirstory and heritage, and more status symbol then for real lovers of music. I Bought this Benchmark immediatly, even not planned that at the moment
I sold McIntosh after giving one more chance (piano sounded like it have cotton, not good imaging...) and were lucky enough to find Second Hand Krell Amp (about it also there is opinion that is not smooth, not silky sound as McIntosh), which in reality is with a lot of dynamic, neutral, good everything without coloration
, and i found out that i prefer real/neutral/not colored sound oposite of what McIntosh provide. On McIntosh u can listen for hours, but not exciting at all, boring. On Benchmark/Krell, more detailed, if it's good record u'll enjoy it, if it's bad u'll hear it. Maybe more fatigue, but also more exciting (as music should be).
Somehow C60 remind me a little bit on McIntosh (except in live look like better quality of workmanship compared to Dogma) (more smooth but maybe dull, not that direct and connected feeling), Dogma (more connected, more lively, but maybe fatiguing) remind me on Benchmark/Krell combination that i really enjoy for 5-6 years.
Oh.. One more thing.. Dogma would be more expensive between 550-700 eur compared to C60, and also i can see that Dogma loosing value much faster then Colnago
Sorry that i made this comparation using my HiFi hobbie but as u are musician im sure u'll understund me
whats my point.
Also, i have long femurs which put my saddle all the way back, so probably geometry better handling this would have bigger chance to win this time
There would be chance to try Colnago C40 of my friend (2 sizes bigger, but i'll try it with short stem), so this can maybe help a little bit
