Colnago C60 Traditional vs Slooping vs Pinarello Dogma F8

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3Pio
Posts: 1581
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

mimason wrote:CMcD, is the 76cm you saddle to BB? If so, you are all legs. Have you considered Cipo geometry? A buddy has the rb1k and that is a really aggressive setup which may work for you.


I think his legs length is 76 cm, and i guess his Saddle to BB is around 65 cm :)

I wonder what is his BB to Saddle and if im right :)

Sisbud
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:43 pm

by Sisbud

Which bike to choose would depend on each individual. How you ride, what you want to achieve as well as the area you live in.

C60 for me is more of an all around bike you take when you want to just ride without thinking about time and result. Mind you, i am not saying that it is not a frame that you can't go fast with. It is just a tad bit more comfortable than dogma f8.

Dogma F8 is something you take to ride when you only want to concentrate on the result. This frame just gives you something extra whenever you push on the pedals, either on the straight or climbing. This beast always pushes you to give more. My best time always come on the dogma.

That is my two cents. Either way you wont make any mistake choosing any one of them as each of them is a very good bike. Feel free to ask me anything you want to know.


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by Weenie


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3Pio
Posts: 1581
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

Sisbud wrote:Which bike to choose would depend on each individual. How you ride, what you want to achieve as well as the area you live in.

C60 for me is more of an all around bike you take when you want to just ride without thinking about time and result. Mind you, i am not saying that it is not a frame that you can't go fast with. It is just a tad bit more comfortable than dogma f8.

Dogma F8 is something you take to ride when you only want to concentrate on the result. This frame just gives you something extra whenever you push on the pedals, either on the straight or climbing. This beast always pushes you to give more. My best time always come on the dogma.

That is my two cents. Either way you wont make any mistake choosing any one of them as each of them is a very good bike. Feel free to ask me anything you want to know.


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Ok, somehow we shaped the ride characteristics of both bike, and i think i have idea how they ride..

Yesterday i asked friends to make some photo of my position on my FP3, and since i have long femurs (my other friend is like 5 cm taller then im, same bike he have saddle in the center, and i have all the way back to get knee over pedal axle. And even in that position im a few mm in the front), that can be a bit of problem with proper sizing and better geometry that can handle that.

Anyway, i need to travel right now, when i get back i'll post few of that pictures to try to figure out which will fit me best in term of geometry.

Thank u guys for all ur posts and help u providing me, i have much better idea how they ride now.

BTW, how is Dogma in term of long rides? One of my favourite riding here is 150 km, and sometimes i have riden 200 km (roads here are pretty rough).

Last year there was a concert in town located 170 km from my City. My gf went there with car, i rode longer route with bike (204 km), and after some rest and shower we went to a concert, and i feel ok enough and not that tired (ok, instead of returning back with bike 2 days later, i decided to get back with car :) )

So as u can see on FP3 it's ok for this kind of riding. How would be on Dogma? Is it still comfortable enough for this kind of riding? (150 km - 200 km at once), Or on Dogma long riding like this would be punishment?



Greetings

Sisbud
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:43 pm

by Sisbud

The dogma should be fine on those long rides. However, dogma is best ridden when your body is fit enough. Sometimes, when you are feeling a bit under, it feels a little bit harder to pedal as the frame is very stiff and there is no deflection to help you on the pedalling motion.

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kgt
Posts: 8749
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

+1
Frames like the dogma need lots of watts to 'wake up' while the C60 feels more responsive in every condition.

mimason
Posts: 654
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:43 pm
Location: Florida

by mimason

^please stop. This is totally inaccurate.

goodboyr
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Location: Canada

by goodboyr

Naaaa......I like it. Very entertaining. Like a Trump rally.

cmcdonnell
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Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:50 pm

by cmcdonnell

Wish my legs were longer!! No it's leg length. BB to saddle top is 67 cm and saddle top to bar centre is 56 cm
Bianchi Oltre XR2 + Campagnolo Super Record 11 + Campagnolo Bora 50C
Litespeed T1 + Campagnolo Chorus 11 + Campagnolo Shamal Ultra

3Pio
Posts: 1581
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

Hi Guys.. Seem that u had fun while i was busy this days :)

Ok, Even i prefer Dogma F8 more for my riding style, seem that i'll go for Colnago C60

Another thing which is very important to me.. In this moment i have Pinarello FP3 which is damaged (avoid stupid Cycloc HERO Bike Holder), on top tube.

I thought that is not a problem to send it for repair, but in whole region is only one guy who repair that and he is total jerk (not answering mails, rude, arogant, expensive (for same damage once he charge one ammount, next time other amount)...

Also i found out that a lot of carbon frame who is actually ridden had some damage and need the repair in period of 5-6 years, so seem that is usefull to have possability to repair in case of accident and to avoid jerks to do that.

Colnago C60 have an option to replace the whole tube in the factory in the case of accident, so this is a big PLUS for me.

Next posts from me. I'll need ur help to pick the proper size of C60. Hope u'll help me :)

Greetings

AJS914
Posts: 5397
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

3Pio wrote:Colnago C60 have an option to replace the whole tube in the factory in the case of accident, so this is a big PLUS for me.


i really doubt that. Once it is glued together, it is not possible to simply unglue one tube and insert a new one.

Repairing carbon is not a big deal. If the damage is straight forward on one tube you could probably do it yourself.

Or, forget your local guy and just mail it off to a reliable, friendly repair business.

3Pio
Posts: 1581
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

AJS914 wrote:
3Pio wrote:Colnago C60 have an option to replace the whole tube in the factory in the case of accident, so this is a big PLUS for me.


i really doubt that. Once it is glued together, it is not possible to simply unglue one tube and insert a new one.

Repairing carbon is not a big deal. If the damage is straight forward on one tube you could probably do it yourself.

Or, forget your local guy and just mail it off to a reliable, friendly repair business.



Thats one of the beauty of lugged bikes.. Its can be repaired in brand new condition very easy. And simple as that.. Unglue, new tube, then glue everything together.. I'll try to find more details about this, but i comfirm that is possible (i checked with dealer as well, not just the net).

BTW, i just started the procedure of ordering Colnago. Next days to find my proper size, and thats it :)

In this situation another plus is that Colnago Dealer is really nice, so one more reason to pick that way

3Pio
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by 3Pio

Im analyzing C60 geometry chart http://colnago.com/geometry-c60-2/?lang=en

And specialy considering my long femur the Scs - Seat cluster offset

But as i can see on sloping sizes they measure this lower (as SeatTube is lower), then real (if we considering the Virtual Length of SeatTube), so it's not rellevant to compare sloping vs traditional.

Can someone translate this Scs on 50S (131mm), in Virtual Scs Length? (To be comparable with 55 trad which is 149mm)

Thanks

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Don't even be worrying about that number. Look at Seat tube angle. There's only two relevant things for what your're trying to figure out, that is seat tube angle and the distance along that line that you will clamp your saddle to.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

3Pio
Posts: 1581
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

Calnago wrote:Don't even be worrying about that number. Look at Seat tube angle. There's only two relevant things for what your're trying to figure out, that is seat tube angle and the distance along that line that you will clamp your saddle to.


But that value would give me info i need. Becouse i have long femur, it's very important for me to compare rear part of the top tube, which is that value.

I need a bike which is shorter in the reach, but have bigger Scs value (to be able to get that KneeOverPedalAxle position).

Or lets ask like this

If i have the saddle on exactly same position, how much difference would be between 55 and 50s from bottom bracket centar? (Which again is Scs value)

I found this table:

http://redkiteprayer.com/2009/10/a-study-in-geometry/

And here i can see that there is like 3 mm difference (143mm virtual Scs for 50s and 146 mm Scs for 55)

But in that table 55 trad have 74 deg seattube angle.

On this chart http://colnago.com/geometry-c60-2/?lang=en 55 trad have 73.57 deg), and 50s is same as previous (i guess, if someone can check i'll be helpful), so this mean C60 in 55 have Scs of 149mm and 50s virtual Scs 143mm, which is 6 mm difference now?

Am i understunding this correctly? or it's wrong?
Last edited by 3Pio on Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Slacker seat tube angle will be further back. Steeper will be further forward. A little trigonometry can find exactly where (given a saddle height) that intersection will be.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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